this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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This doesn't seem correct though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falafel#Etymology
I think the lesson here is that it's very common for a tradition common to many peoples to cause arguments over who invented it, often with little solid evidence.
It's definitely not common to Polish American Jews, who have a rich traditional cuisine of their own without pretending they have anything to do with the history of the Middle East.
I agree. Now, time to have a go at the Greeks and Turks by saying the other invented the kebab/döner
Or baklava
Sure, but surely that point is better made without being prefaced with nonsense 20 seconds of googling can refute.
Listen, I get your point. But your profile picture says "no post". Yet, post.
Whomst amongst ust.
Literally the next section in the article you posted brings up the coptic origin theory as an alternative. Maybe if we lived in alternative universe where Hieroglyphs/Cuneiform remained the predominant writing systems for the Semitic Languages we would know for sure the exact etymology, but they seem equally plausible.
Origin and etymology are distinct, the dish having Coptic origin is possible though unlikely and unsubstantiated. Coptic origin of the word is a claim that can be traced back to a single, somewhat farcical source.
idk go get mad at the Greeks and Aramaeans for replacing logographic writing with phonetic writing.
The phonetic revolution and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Unironically this every time I see etymology arguments.
I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, the only good proto-indoeuropean is a dead proto-indoeuropean.
a bit disproportionate
I don't like this type of academic.
I didn't set out to prove them wrong, I set out to learn more about falafel, which is delicious. I look up basically everything I come across compulsively. There are 7261 lines of wikipedia pages in my search history on this particular computer.
It's the sign of a pseudointellectual colonizer, to call someones firsthand cultural knowledge "nonsense" because muh Wikipedia says so. You are an arrogant fool who knows nothing in this situation, this is why everyone hates organising with crackers.
I didn't call it nonsense because Wikipedia said so, I called it nonsense because this Arabic researcher dove into to the etymology (with sources) and specifically called it 'laughable'.
فول, or ful, is literally arabic for bean.
Ok
Look if you want me to feel bad for thinking we shouldn't be making dubious arguments I don't know what to tell ya.
You're trying to take organic human communication and abstract it into the realm of pure ideas and reason, thinking you can escape nuances such as context and intent. Ignoring half the substance.
I take issue with your attitude, flippant, rude dismissal of cultural knowledge that you have no connection to as a white americuck.
In short, you're using academic prestige and "correctness" as an excuse to be a condescending asshole.
I'm Arab, and you're being way more of an asshole than B. Slate
You're being obnoxious and your reaction is completely disproportionate. They acted in good faith, and the one with the problematic attitude here is you.
Being arrogantly dismissive isn't "good faith" to me but I accept that my reaction was disproportionate.
In his defense, we have a history.
Ah, should've guessed.
I'm not doing any of that. The crux of the OP is correct; it's just that the provided etymology is considered a folk etymology and not one attested in the historical record.
If I'd jumped into the facebook posters DM's and called him all manner of unkind things for using a folk etymology, that would make me a condescending asshole, but good thing I didn't do that. I pointed out that it was a folk etymology so that people here can attach a little context to this tidbit of information that was missing in the original post.
Like honestly, you're saying I shouldn't have said anything on finding that this claim is disputed? At least now people here can use this argument with the added etymology context and not look as though they don't know what they're talking about.
Akshdueidldhrjely this statement is folk etymology and not attested in the historical record. 🤓🤓🤓
See figure 1. below:
Here we can see our bloodless bugperson dismissively label someones cultural history that was likely passed down to them by their precious family members as "nonsense", all with the arrogant swagger of a white academic. Unintentionally displaying the embarassing level of shallowness of its own research with "muh 20 seconds of Googling".
Like fr what the fuck man, the medium scholar can be arrogant about it because he's fishing for clicks, it's a debate he's passionate about with a cultural connection to so it's all in good fun, and he's actually done the work.
It's just strange when some random angloid from America takes up the same attitude for literally no other reason than being rude and dismissive to give themselves an aura of someone who needs to be "taken seriously".
"Hey based on my limited cultural knowledge and shallow research, I found that the Coptic origins of the word Falafel may not be entirely accurate. However it is still an arabic dish and the twitter user Khalil's point still stands, death to Israel."
Would have been better.
You assume that your dismissive arrogance is the default mode of human communication, you're a tiresome person.
Look if you're just going to invent scenarios so that my pointing out some rando on the internet might have said something untrue is equivalent to me spiting on the graves of their loved ones so that you can claim I'm being "rude and dismissive" to someone I'm not interacting with, have at it, but don't expect me to take it seriously.
Coptic, and this dish, have been around for thousands of years. The word falafel less than a hundred and fifty. Arab linguists scholars have claimed it as Arabic for over half that time and have provided an etymology for it.
They could absolutely wrong, but I'm not going to take flack as the asshole for pointing out they've made a much stronger case.
Humorously, the Coptic origin claim got some play on twitter years ago as an argument by Israelis that it isn't a Palestinian dish.
"Gotta maintain my prestige on hexbear dot net otherwise I'll never make tenure" and other common concerns of the learned scholar.
I mean do you actually want to see the order of my browser history timestamps? I didn't stop reading about it after my first post, and yeah my second post was informed by my having read the Arabic source, which is when I introduced the word nonsense, perhaps a bit too lightly, but not to extent that I'll feel bad about.
Look you've already given up the game that you're just being an asshole for the sake of it. What you hope to accomplish by that I don't know but go off anyway king.
Yeah it's really silly and yet here you are using that type of language.
I'm talking about your first and second posts on this thread, Einstein, can't be fucked about what you do in the privacy of your own browser.
There's nothing wrong with correcting misinfo, I take issue with your dismissive tone and lack of earlier effort to clarify your intentions and case, especially in this case.
Nah it's because you're a very condescending white academic, I don't like you guys.
I know you're talking about my first and second posts on this thread. My first post offered a tentative questioning of this etymology (with a citation), and my second post mirrored the language used by a more thorough analysis that I had subsequently read. My browser history corroborates that and shows that your argument that I went scrambling for additional sources only after being challenged is nonsense.
Can't win em all. You can block me if you like. I'll block you once we wrap up our current pleasant interaction and that way we can both get on with our miserable lives.
Incidentally, I've apparently looked up Diego Maradona 7 times in the last 3 years.
Edit: I almost just did it again trying to remember why I kept looking him up. I think one of them was when Pele died.
Chekov: Falafel was actually inwented by a babushka in Siberia!