Sebrof

They are definitely utopians without evem knowing what that word means. They were frustrating to deal with, but the only way to defeat them is to outorganize them (which wouldn't be hard) and let them stay in the marsh.

I haven't read Luxemburg's works, I only know of Reform and Revolution and some broad history of the German Revolution, so may I ask what Luxemburgists believe in? And I imagine that even if I were more familiar with Luxemburg's writings it wouldn't explain those who call themselves Luxemburgists. I'm just imagining they are some different flavor of Trot - but that's probably unfair as I haven't investigated it.

Terrarium made a point above which I can agree with, having interacted with them, they don't actually seem to study any of their supposed heros. I was making an argument for national liberation movements and supporting anti imperialist struggles even if they aren't explicitly socialist in nature, and I was pulling literal quotes from Stalin in the Foundations of Leninsim, but they just handwaved it away and pulled some other quotes from the book that made it appear that "nationalism is bad".

I had an argument with them where I was stating my understanding of socialism as the transition period etc etc, standard stuff I thought. But they argued against me. Saying that we don't need a transition. We will, literally, just jump straight into communism. And this is why the Russian and Chinese revolutions failed, because they didn't push the communist button I suppose.

Again, I tried to find some text from their heros to explain my viewpoint, but it did no use. They also wanted to do away with money entirely. I hate money as much as the next communist, but I think you can't just get rid of it tomorrow and expect logistics to continue. That seems like you need some sorta of, hmmm, transition period almost? I even quotes parts of The Gotha Program about money being replaced with labor tokens as an example of a transition. But again... no. I realized that any further papers on cybernetics or etc. even just for brainstorming or having a fun hypothetical with were pointless to bring up too.

Their answer is to simply press the big red button, and everyone else was to stupid or blind to know how.

And they don't read any theory except for what they themselves published back in the 60s.

There's more I can say, but I'm already afraid of doxxing myself

Exactly what you said about it being an existing division. I tried framing it that way too, that I am not the one making these divisions, these divisions already exist and we have to include it in our analysis. But no, they acted like me speaking the word itself is what is dividing the working class.

And they were alo very anti nationalism. Because, guess why, it "divides the workers". I put more energy than I should have pulling quotes and arguments from Fanon, and even the big man of steel himself Stalin (as this group claimed to be Stalinist), as to why national liberation should be supported.

But every time just just sent me a doc their party wrote in the 60s about why I was wrong and why the BPP should be opposed.

I don't have to deal with them anymore thank god

Thanks for the comment. It's very frustrating these types of leftists. And the other party that wasn't a Trot group, but an "anti-revisionist" group (they were similar to Trots in ways but like Stalin and Mao) were the worst of the two when it came to the above problems. When I brought up settler colonialsim (I'm no scholar of it, but I thought the party members should at least uh... know about it) at one of their public events they got real mad. Asking me if that meant I was just against immigration and believed people couldn't move around then. They said it "divided the workers" and they then tried to set up a debate against me. I am not one for debates though. And I doubt it would have been in any sort of good faith. I decided to nope out of there and hope they they made a big enough ass of themselves at the event that they've since faded away. But, unfortunately, I know it's not that easy. They're still around with their damaging line.

The Trot group and anti-revisionist (with majoe ultra left tendencies) groups at my city were, at best, both sidesing Israel and Hamas (all resistance gets reduced to Hamas for them whom they then endlessly fear monger about). They just say shit like workers on both sides should unite against their oppressive IDF ans Hamas bosses, etc.

They make a mockery of internationalism, and dismiss anything in the realm of anti-colonialism. These were just the groups in my town. They were absolutely disappointing, but not surprising for Western Leftists. Not sure if they've changed their tune now, though, I've avoided them for a while.

The number of poorly designed graphs, charts, and data visualizations I've seen from economists and/or their mouthpieces...

Literally MS Paint is a new one though.

So, the only thing stopping us from Nuclear Armageddon is what it would do to the line

Hope you have a fun trip!

No you should stay, ~please~. You're an important voice for us all to learn from. And even if there are disagreements your presence here is definitely a net benefit as it adds a knowledgeable perspective. We need a plethora of good views and takes, and it's okay if there are disagreements.

Something, something the dialectic.

Economics is a SCIENCE

There are currently 7.0 fears in the market

Why did they have to go and make the economy political?