It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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The same person can be a customer at Walmart, a worker at Walmart, and a shareholder/owner at Walmart. Class as a Marxist concept maybe made sense when you could only be a worker or an owner. But it doesn’t work in a world where you can seamlessly switch between categories, or be all of them at the same time.
Marxists when the Walmart greeter shows them his penny stocks (he is bourgeois now)
The same person can be a customer at Walmart, a worker at Walmart, and a shareholder/owner at Walmart.
You laugh but this is literally the foundational model of microeconomics: dynamic stochastic general equilibrium that they have been teaching to every econ students for the past few decades.
The economists around the world advising their governments have all been indoctrinated to some degree of this neoclassical belief.
Am I dumb or is it supposed to read like wank?
I'm pretty sure all modern liberal "economics" is supposed to read like wank by design
Feels like the self-selection scammers go for, anyone that would find it wank would self-select themselves out of the pool.
As a literal former Walmart greeter who got a few thousand in the Employee Stock Program, fuck this guy (and double fuck Walmart)
Getting fired by Walmart and making their Wikipedia page for it is the crowning achievement of my career.
The same person can be a customer at Walmart, a worker at Walmart, and a shareholder/owner at Walmart. Class as a Marxist concept maybe made sense when you could only be a worker or an owner. But it doesn’t work in a world where you can seamlessly switch between categories, or be all of them at the same time.
these people have rocks in their skulls
Marx expressly addresses this a number of times in his writings.
Liberals and making arguments already explicitly disproven by books they refuse to read, NAMID.
"Oh you have $60 in stocks in a company, that makes you a capitalist." - people who say we don't understand economics
I want to see this dork seamlessly switch between Walmart greeter and Walmart owner. Just do it, if it's that easy.
...and a shareholder/owner at Walmart...
Oh boy... somebody's gonna lose their shit when they hear about the different types of "shares" a company can buy/sell/trade.
The same person can be a customer at Walmart, a worker at Walmart, and a shareholder/owner at Walmart. Class as a Marxist concept maybe made sense when you could only be a worker or an owner. But it doesn’t work in a world where you can seamlessly switch between categories, or be all of them at the same time.
How can you write so many words when you clearly don't understand what class even is.
I can buy penny stocks in a company where I am a wage slave, therefore no class
I really need to remember the source because this seems to come up a lot. But Marx differentiated between proletarian workers whose labor power was used in production and other workers whose labor power was used in the redistribution of capital. For example, many finance capital workers are not proletarian. The terminology there may not be exactly right, but that’s the gist.
I think the whataboutisms that make class look murky are extremely rare. You’d need someone who both labors in production and owns the company and makes equal amounts from their wages and from their ownership. The capitalist class has long had a word for this type of person: a failure. I’d be happy to just call them petit bourgeois.
Very few large corporations are majority employee owned, at least outside China. Only ones I can think of in the US are WinCo (grocery stores) and Valve Corp (steam, halflife, gabe). I guess there is also Bob's Redmill but they aren't that big. In China a sizeable chunk of the private sector is structured like that with Huawei probably being the most famous example. It's not a perfect structure and there are downsides but it's something.
I find it interesting that large corporations structured like that have a stability and long term outlook similar to well managed state owned enterprises. None of the mergers, reorganizations, and fire sales of assets you see so often with other large private sector enterprises. Then again, it's probably harder to get the board to approve mass layoffs or downsizing to juice next quarters profits when most of the board seats represent rank and file employees.
How have we not considered the complexities of real life?
Notice that none of them have read Marx. They've just found a secondary source they choose to believe. One that aligns with their baby political biases.
Peterson is the perfect example of this.
Spent 6 months prattling on about how he was gonna debate Marxism into the ground then when somebodybasked him what parts of marks writing he disagreed with was like "oh I haven't actually ever read anything by Marx"
aimixin:
Marxism is dialectic, it rejects absolute pure categories. Things sort of exist on a spectrum but sort of don't. The way Marxists use categories is to understand that everything is connected to each other through a series of quantifiable interconnected steps, but that something is always dominant, and this dominant aspect is what determines the overall quality of the thing in question.
If you're trying to shove everything into a pure category of absolutely worker, absolutely capitalist, then this is just a useless endeavor. When we talk of "worker" or "capitalist," we don't mean it as if these are pure categories, where a worker can't ever own capital, or that a capitalist can't ever do labor. They may do these things, they may exist somewhere in between. But clearly at some point, certain characteristics become dominant over others. Clearly Jeff Bezos's class interests are not the same as a minimum wage worker, as the latter likely has next to no capital while the former has far more capital than he could ever, by his own labor, afford.
There is no reason to try and shove this person you're describing into a specific absolute box. If they're a salaried worker who runs some very small business / self-employment on the side as supplemental income, you could just say they're a worker with petty bourgeois characteristics. You don't have to say they're absolutely "petty bourgeois" or a "worker". You can just describe that they have characteristics of multiple categories. No reason you cannot do this.
Real question, if these dorks don't believe classes exist, what do they think the function of a state is? Is there some other conflict within humanity that states mediate? It's probably some kind of dogshit like that racism simply happens for no reason, or criminality just comes from nowhere.
What is supposedly the reason states exist within a neoliberal framework? Because if classes aren't something that are real, why is a state even there? Capitalism can't chug along without one?
racism is just caused by people having misinformed ideas on race, and criminals just don’t properly reason about their actions or are immoral. the state exists simply to protect everybody’s human rights, which are established through rational discourse and proper argumentation. class interests? boorswasee? those are old bad ideas, now we have better ones like stakeholder capitalism <3
That really is the crux of their whole worldview, isn't it? Some people are dumb-dumbs and some people are smarty pants and it's the responsibility of the smart people to argue about why they should own everything.
They only conceive of conflict as misunderstandings, or improper education. They can't see inherent conflict in material terms.
Capital, Volume III introduces some analysis on this topic, but Marx's conclusion seem to imply that if you have a single dollar in 401(k), you are bourgeois, but CEO without company shares is class-traitor worker.
Marx failed to consider the 401(k) 
You'd have to wonder how they don't simply self combust from cognitive dissonance when worshipping models like the laffer curve that have the scientific rigour of 'it came to me in a dream' while trying to nitpick shit like this. Capitalism didn't come fully formed with a neat date, so Marx is full of shit actually 
The meaning of classes has been almost completely destroyed by a bunch of people who would be in debt if they missed a paycheck not wanting to admit they're working class.
There's no class solidarity among the working class because people who make 50k a year wanna feel superior to people who make 20k who wanna feel superior to people on medicaid.
Meanwhile rich liberals know not to do too much to rock the boat and won't actually meaningfully oppose the oppressive system that made them rich.
a bunch of people who would be in debt if they missed a paycheck not wanting to admit they're working class.
there's also the opposite problem of petit bourgeois exploiters wanting to pretend they're working class because they have a "job" which consists of owning a couple of laundromats and renting out a 2 bedroom suburban home to some tenants
Oh you own 1/10000000 of a company? Guess you're in the owner class :shrugs:
W-2 vs Form 8949 and Schedule D (Form 1040) this shit ain't hard
Either you make your living thru wages and salary or capital gains, if you do both then you're a failed capitalist or a lucky gambling worker
For 99% of us tho, it's either W-2 or Schedule D
Class is an entirely useless metric for analysis, here let me show you by doing class analysis and getting mad because there's some nuanced edge cases to it
Basically everything that Marx writes about capitalists is based on belief that there exists collective class interest.
Any CEO worth their salt will just fuck over their competitors if given chance, not act for good of capitalist class.
Whole idea of "reserve army of labor" is based on belief that capitalists will act to their own detriment for good of other capitalists.
this person has never heard of the prisoners dilemna
You are asking a typical redditor to think critically? 
Any CEO worth their salt will just fuck over their competitors if given chance, not act for good of capitalist class.
What is cornering the market?
What is a monopoly?
What is a cartel/oligopoly?
Lolol
The purpose of a CEO is to make as much money as possible, not "fuck over their competitors", e.g form a monopoly. The path of least resistance is forming a price cartel with like one guy - i.e the immediate outcomes of early capitalism and the defining characteristics of the founding of most capitalist states.
Try getting healthy insurance or a phone plan today lmao. Try for 5 minutes to get municipal fiber in your city.
These rubes think the point of competition is to compete forever. The point of is to win.
Regarding the first point, what does this person think the purpose of the bourgeois state is? Yes capitalists each have their own individual interests and compete with each other, but the state arbitrates those conflicts and maintains bourgeois dominance over society by enforcing the private property relations which benefit capitalists collectively to the detriment of everybody else.
There's clearly not a better alternative, that would be born out of capitalism. Nope, nuh uh. Clearly we just have to put up with the capitalists exploiting us until the sun hyperinflates and explodes.
CEOs do fuck each other over, but it is unheard of for them to do this by, say, causing their competitor's employees to unionize. There are real and bitter rivalries in the bourgeoisie, but that does not mean they don't know who the real enemies are.
Every day we get more and more proof why free speech was a mistake
Marx literally addresses this. Neo Marxists have taken the concept further by considering the polarisation capital causes on a global scale through imperialism.
Are you directly profiting from the labour of others? You are bourgeois.
Are you not? You are proletariat.
(this is an oversimplification and might be wrong)
Virgin hexbearist marxist vs Chad redditeur deboonker
The Best and the Brightest, everyone.
...
These people are so fucking ignorantly smug
new class analysis just dropped
Blue Collar Class - construction, trades, janitors, truckers etc., people who work their bodies hard and will "burn out" in their 50s due to accumulated injuries, don't typically work a set 9-5 but instead do shift work
White Collar Class - people who work that there 9 to 5, biggest deltas between working and office class folks is the set schedule and work that doesn't really take a toll on the body
Professional Class - execs, doctors, law partners, etc. - people who amass wealth in a way that white and blue collar folks do not, have multiple homes, and can fund their kids education without debt, and can pay for extracurriculars to get their kids into elite institutions to try and keep that professional class status in the next generation
The Neogentry - the feudal lords of America, they own dealerships, a chain of franchise stores, locally important businesses, and are big fish in a big town but unimportant in a city or populous state. Wealth is intergenerational, but they are more locally/state focused. they probably have a relationship with their congressional rep, and definitely have a number of state govt members who know them on a first name basis
Blue Bloods - the Johnsons etc., high-3 and 4 comma club families with money managers who have real elite pull in society. They can meet with their senators, their governor, and may be able to get the President's attention on key issues