Are civilian deaths inevitable in any war of sufficient scale? Yes.
Is the IDF operating with a mindset of minimizing civilian casualties? Doubtful.
this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
141 points (95.5% liked)
World News
49424 readers
2728 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
They blew up a truck full of women and children that were using the evac route Israel promised not to bomb...
Then an hour later while the bodies were still burning on the road they started telling Palestinians it was safe again
Yeah, but hospital /s
It's mostly inevitable if you're aiming at them.
"Dog deaths are inevitable"
Fires guided munitions into a fucking veterinary clinic.
Damn those terrorists for making us do this.
The hospital debate is proving to be great cover for Isreal. I bet this gets about as much traction as the journalists the IDF killed earlier this week. They sure seem to be having a lot of accidents that get glossed over.
Israel has the right to defend itself, if they have exterminate 2 million people, it is a small price to pay for their security
While I believe Israel has a right to defend itself and generally lean towards their side this conflict that is absolutely not a small price or an acceptable thing to say.
6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. Your talking about 1/3rd of the amount. Israel was literally created so Jews can defend themselves and prevent another Holocaust from ever happening and you're advocating for a modern day one.
I believe and so do many others that Hamas and other terrorists can be defeated without killing millions.
You got any other ways Israel can secure Gaza without massive civilian casualties and forced removal of the remaining undesirables?
Sure. Slowly, tediously, at great cost to both the IDF and Palestinian civilians.
And there will be civilian casualties I won't pretend it's possible to not have them. But we are talking about an order of magnitude less then what you're saying it will take.
And advocating for genocide and pretending it's the only solution is insane.
I am pro Gaza resident but I am also a realist.
They are fucked, just resettle them... Otherwise only option is the genocide....
Now you tell me which route powers that be have chosen...
"Yeah, we're going to kill innocent people. Can't be helped. Remember: We're the good guys!"
Absolutely vile. I'm sure the 800+ civilians killed in bombing the hospital was ~~intentional~~ inevitable.
Is there even a confirmation of the claim that Hamas using civilian as human shield for all the Israeli strike? Or is it just another lies the Israel tell to justify their ethnic cleansing? Like how they strike building that house AP, Aljazeera and other press, in Gaza back in 2021 saying there's militant in the building? Or the time they bomb a evacuating truck full of civilian after they asked a city of 2 millions to evacuate down south? Or the time they murdered Aljazeera journalist but lie to the world that it's Palestine who did it?
And the lesson to be learned here is that there is not always a "good guy" in a conflict.
Sometimes they are both just worthless assholes.
One is a villain with a cause you can relate to, one is a hero that's just absolutely evil.
Pick a side. I sure can't.
Those are both the same thing at the end of the day.
It's unfortunate that the God they worship doesn't exist, because they would both be going straight to hell.
Israel has killed 36x as many children as all pro-Palestine groups combined have killed Israeli kids.
I love how you cherry pick in Palestine's favor by explicitly mentioning how many children in general Israel has killed vs how many children specifically belonging to Israel that Palestine has killed.
You're also missing the point that neither is good. They're women and fucking children, innocents FFS. You can't put a metric on good to either of those, those are both objectively bad things and they should both be punished for it.
-
I didn't cherry pick shit. I just worded that poorly and you would rather attack me on style than substance https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
-
Scale absolutely makes a difference. Especially when you consider how much funding Israeli gets. Maybe there is no "good guy" but when one side starts killing orders of magnitudes more innocents than the other side then one side definitely becomes the bad guys.
-
Then don't word it poorly next time. Thank you for providing data though, most people don't do that and that was really cool of you
-
One side may be worse, but at the end of the day, they both deliberately killed innocents. It doesn't matter how many more one killed, they are BOTH BAD GUYS.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
More than one million Palestinians were warned to move to southern Gaza from the north at the weekend by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF), ahead of an expected ground invasion.
The Palestinian health ministry, which is run by Hamas, has also claimed up to 500 people, which they called "martyrs", were killed in a bombing that targeted a hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday.
IDF spokesperson, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, told Sky News earlier: "You can't expect us not to protect our civilians because Hamas are hiding behind theirs.
The chief of Israel's military intelligence, Major General Aharon Haliva, has written a letter taking responsibility for failure to anticipate the deadly attack.
Speaking at a news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on Tuesday, Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, said Hamas was responsible for the safety of civilians in Gaza, including hostages they have taken, and claimed the group is using citizens as human shields.
Hundreds of people are feared buried under the rubble in Gaza, and more than a million Palestinians have fled their homes, with aid agencies warning of a deteriorating humanitarian crisis.
The original article contains 734 words, the summary contains 185 words. Saved 75%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I think we should just cram both leaders into a submersible
Nazi Israel strikes again