this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's going to blow their minds once they figure out who the Empire in Star Wars was an allegory for.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I'd like to have this person watch Starship Troopers and then write an essay on what it's about.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 years ago

While listening to "Dixieland" on electric violin.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I found his essay

"Cool soldier guys cleanse the galaxy of unholy xenos"

That's all it says, he turned in the same paper for the Warhammer essay too.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago (2 children)

They'd probably think it was about how fascism is good. It doesn't go far enough imo.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 2 years ago (2 children)

You can explicitly make the fascists into cartoon villains like Star Wars and still get people doing the "empire did nothing wrong" larp and unironically making support for fascists their identity through it.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

To be clear I want a 20 minute long presentation and the start and end of the movie explaining that the federation are the bad guys, why their systems do not work, as well as an overview of the horrors of fascism. During the movie, the fascists must be depicted to be fundamentally wrong. Bonus points for them also constantly being portrayed as incompetent, by eg slipping on a banana peel every 20 seconds (and then being eaten by a bug, which are explicitly communist and also good).

EDIT: This unironically

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago (23 children)

I think the issue is that you shouldn't make fascists "fun" or "cool" in any way whatsoever.

In both Star Wars and Troopers the fascists are undeniably fun and entertaining to ride along with. Fun, cool or entertaining things inevitably make people want to imitate or copy-cat them for funsies, and this rubs off into personal identity.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The only movies that portrayed Nazis correctly are the Indiana Jones movies and Come and See. One for portraying the Nazis as a bunch of incompetent buffoons and the other for portraying the Nazis as a bunch of incompetent genocidal buffoons.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago (5 children)

This is totally correct and nobody wants to imitate being those nazis as a result.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The Monteverdi/Shakespeare school of Prologue writing. "We are the muses, sit down and shut up as we take 10 min to explain to you exactly what this story is about and what moral lesson you should take from it. We will be back at the end with a chorus illustrating this, There will be an exam."

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago

That’s actually what the book is about, though! Heinlein was a classic example of a libertarian-turned-fascist. He wrote a book about how war is cool and the military is a necessary part of an ordered society. The book reads like satire because you would have to be a very dumb Nazi to read it and think “Of course we should be constantly at war with a faceless and dehumanized enemy, and create a society around that principle. This makes sense and is good.” but that’s literally what Heinlein was trying to say, or at least present as a possibility in the book.

There’s some argument that he was being ironic and leaving things to be interpreted by the audience, but if you look at his work on the whole, and his political opinions, it’s clear that he’s just a bog-standard American conservative who likes war, racism, and misogyny, but doesn’t like the government or taxes.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I once got a whole room of guys to laugh when I mentioned the X-men comics are an allegory for persecuted ethnic, religious, sexual, etc minorities. That one is the most clear allegories out of any popular media, and yet people still don't get it. The mutants are clearly oppressed, they're not typical superheroes who are fighting crime out of some intrinsic feeling of superiority. The X-men are organized and militant to defend themselves from discrimination.

The 2000s era X-men movies are even more clear about it, although they squeeze the allegory down so that mutants specifically represent queer people. You've got teenage runaways, unsupportive families, and there's a whole theme of mutants figuring themselves out around the age of puberty. There's a line in the second movie where one mutant's mother asks "Have you tried not being a mutant?" which is a parody of a common conservative line from the time "Have you tried not being gay?" I mentioned all of this and only got one guy on board because I mentioned the director, Bryan Singer, is gay. Then he was able to believe there's gay stuff in the X-men.

I think some people only engage in media because it's comforting lights and sounds they can distract themselves with

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I remember the first time I saw (and loved) There Will Be Blood I had an argument with a friend about it. He hated it and said he didn't understand who could enjoy a movie like that--"everyone was so shitty, who am.i supposed to root for?" I was kinda floored by that, because I remember thinking it was amazing and near-perfect. To me it was like a surgical diagram, delving much deeper than some trite ethical parable into the minds of the powerful and the power-seeking, and demonstrating the world they perpetuate.

Not saying I was right when I disagreed, but I realized we were watching movies for different reasons. I had my foot in the real world, enjoying media for how it interacts with it, while he was enjoying movies as something to utterly submit yourself to. If a movie doesn't have a good slot for him to sit in, he's homeless in it. In some ways he probably enjoyed media more than I do.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sometimes similar people to that revel in "everyone is an asshole" stories if what they get out of it is "therefore status quo good, pick your favorite ruling class monster to quote and emulate." You can often tell when those stories come about and how they'll be received when the supposed worst character is the one that is trying to improve society somewhat instead of just oinking and rolling in shit like everyone else in it.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"These are bad guys, good thing that's not us" stories hit different than "nobody can be good actually" stories, sure

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"nobody can be good actually"

This can sometimes miss its audience as the intended message. Look at how many people idolize and imitate Walter White walter-breakdown or even fucking Patrick Bateman. bateman-ontological

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Tony Soprano is probably the best example. Undeniably a compelling character, constantly wavering in a sort of moral blind spot and making you think about the reliability of the signifiers we look for in figuring out who to trust. For some he's just an awesome dad who kicks ass and gets shit done

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They followed it up with:

Where's the gender dysphoria in warhammer then?

Good stuff.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I think I know this one. There's at least one cosmic entity, Slaneesh, that is some kind of genderfluid, but she/he/it is portrayed as evil or something. I don't know the lore well The 40k humans though are like an exaggerated parody of the worst attributes of fascists, medieval crusaders, and British colonizers. They were initially parody but nerds completely lost their ability to detect satire, but I've read the devs haven't been so great about indicating the humans are not supposed to be admired.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago

I remember back in the 2014 times when slaneesh was considered to be the cause of “lgbt+ people” by “corrupting” heteros. Like the fash pipeline was huge back then. As someone who loves warhammer, it was almost impossible to find creators who weren’t in alt-right pipeline.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

All the choas gods are neither good nor evil. They're just manifestations of latent sentient psychic power.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago (12 children)

I see them as symptomatic of the suffering of mortal beings in the setting, many of them specifically suffering in Imperium of Man hive worlds and crushed under the weight of oppression and servitude. The Imperium tries to fight the symptoms because the High Lords of Terra benefit from the disease and always have. :Sigmarxism:

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 years ago (4 children)

You gotta start small with Yankees.

Tell them The Lorax isn't only about trees, challenge them to figure it out on their own.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It’s incredible how bad literacy education is in this country

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago

I always sound like a crackpot whenever people say anything about low media literacy. It gets me yelling about the CIA, anti communism, and how it's all a race to the bottom.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 years ago (2 children)

i freakin hate "modern day mentality"!!!

retvrn to tradition! (eating fruit gushers and watching nickelodeon)

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Retvrn to tradition (⅓ of Han emperors were bisexual)

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago

return to tradition (China only stopped being gay because after the century of humiliation they decided they had to copy the west to survive. China, just like everywhere else was pretty fucking gay before the christians fucked it up)

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 2 years ago (1 children)

sometimes the ~~curtains~~ space fascists are just blue smuglord

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

All art, all stories are an expression of one's own thoughts and ideas. All stories are about inner and outer human conflict. Your characters' goals, motivations and the adversities they face will always be dictated, or at the very least strongly influenced by your ideology and world view. No fascist will ever write about a communist utopia positively. No communist will ever uncritically write about a great man pulling himself up by his bootstraps to become a billionaire. If you're an "apolitical gamer" you will unquestioningly write about whatever you're finding in the trash can of ideology at the moment. Similarly, everything you write will be tainted by "modern day thought" because everything we have ever experienced has happened in the modern day, including learning about the past. Every fantasy world is merely a reinterpretation of ours and every sapient fantasy race is allegorical to humans in some way, whether you intend it to be or not. We cannot comprehend non-human conflict and thus human conflict is all we can write about.

These people really do believe the curtains are blue, huh?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children)

These people really do believe the curtains are blue, huh?

yea

I once had a prolonged and fruitless argument in a video game guild chat with someone that insisted the 1980s GI JOE cartoon was perfect because it "had no politics and no political agenda." galaxy-brain

He even topped it off after a while with "did anyone ever tell you... the curtains are FUCKING BLUE?" smuglord

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago

To these kinds of people, nothing is political until their views are challenged. Politics dominates every facet of their life and they only notice when a necessary change is pointed out.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Warhammer Fantasy

Europe is full of savage anglos chomping at the bit to kill each other and the only thing stopping them is the fact that there are other countries they can go after

Also, Scotsmen hold grudges

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago

The dwarves aren't Scots, they're from Yorkshire. Which makes a lot more sense if you know about the history of Yorkshire and mining.

Yanks can't tell the difference though.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 years ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago

This is like my fifth time reading this and the psychic damage is still immense.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 years ago (8 children)

This is about Warhammer Fantasy. Literally every faction is an allegory/pastiche for a specific historical nation/culture.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Ah yes, the genetically modified, cloned, super-soldiers who all hail an iconic god-emperor, who in reality died long ago. They gleefully genocide their way through the universe in the name of this corpse that never cared about them in the first place. They all internalise insane amounts of trauma and death and claim it to be a good thing.

Definitely don't think about the parallels with current hegemonies on Earth that also cultishly worship long-dead symbols that justify suffering of the masses, depersonalisation, eugenics, and genocide.

To me, 40k's spes mariens were always a warning to society - This is the direction you're headed if you keep this shit up.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 years ago

Dragging every single redditor into a classroom one by one and screaming paragraphs of Gadamer at them until they grasp the very basics of how we understand and make meaning

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