FRANKFURT, Oct 10 (Reuters) - Germany on Tuesday unveiled a fresh support package for Ukraine worth around 1 billion euros ($1.1 billion), its defence ministry said, adding the programme covered air defense, weapons and ground vehicles.

"Germany will continue to support Ukraine with what it needs most urgently - air defence, ammunition and tanks," German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius said.

"With this new 'winter package' we are further increasing the operational readiness of the Ukrainian armed forces in the coming months."

Pistorius said the package covered an additional Patriot air defense missile system - which was flagged by Chancellor Olaf Scholz last week - as well as an additional IRIS-T system and Gepard anti-aircraft-gun tank.

Pistorius said that Ukrainian special forces would also be supported with vehicles, weapons as well as unspecified equipment worth more than 20 million euros to increase their capabilities.

($1 = 0.9429 euros)

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[+] [email protected] -23 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Still now Taurus missles, spineless cowards.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Germany has done a lot at this point. They should send the missiles, but calling them spineless cowards isn't justified at all.

[+] [email protected] -11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'll call my government whatever I want. And it is true. They're literally afraid of angering Russia, even though the UK and France have provided equivalent weapons.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sowing division between NATO allies is a common objective of Russian propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Dude, I'm German. Critising my own goverment doesn't sow any divisions.

I'm very much aware of what my government has been doing since I voted for them, there is plenty to dislike, most of which has nothing to do with Ukraine.

You got the wrong picture.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

Everyone who provided long range weapons did so under the requirement that they are not used on Russian soil. Taurus has almost twice the range comparatively, being able to reach far into Russia, so there's of course some concerns that they get misused.

That being said, calling the second largest provider of aid "spineless cowards" is moronic. And yes, Germans can very much sow division even within their own country. The AfD does literally nothing but that.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know how intensively you followed the news, but regarding the Taurus rejection, there was also a big reveal regarding the French and British cruise missiles: It's those two countries themselves who deliver the target coordinates and they have people in Ukraine programming the cruise missile targets before launch. I don't think this was ever mentioned before, when the topic was the SCALP/Storm Shadow. But that's seems to be the problem that Germany cannot legally follow.

Translated with DeepL (https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/news-des-tages-olaf-scholz-und-taurus-marschflugkoerper-angriffssoftware-predator-afd-chef-tino-chrupalla-a-a57b3057-f182-4b4e-ab3a-ad550d52348f):

"According to the report, Great Britain and France directly contribute the geodata for the attack targets themselves and are also involved with their own personnel."

"Literally, the chancellor told the committee that other nations could do something "that we are not allowed to do." Many deputies understood from the implication that Scholz was referring to needed German help in programming the weapons systems. London and Paris, he said, were much more relaxed on this issue."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

Interessting. However reading the original article doesn't say anything about a legal issue.

The chancellor basically says that "we're not allowed" to provide direct offensive assistence because of our duty to German history.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The next sentence with the assumption regarding the German history is made by the article author and not part of Scholz quote.

I understand 'we're not allowed' completely in a legal way, otherwise he would probably use different and more ambiguous wording.

It's just a new thing to me and I never read before that Great Britain and France are directly involved with their cruise missile programming. Germany would have to send troops into the war to program Russian targets and 'we're not allowed'. But I'm no lawyer, so I cannot comment what kind of law this would or could break.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I understand ‘we’re not allowed’ completely in a legal way, otherwise he would probably use different and more ambiguous wording.

"Wir dürfen nicht" is very much an ambigous wording in the orignal German. Definitly doesn't imply that there is a legal issue.

And it seems there isn't. In fact, the main legal point here seems to be if providing the weapon can be done by the government or requires a vote from parliament. And it seems it wouldn't even require the vote.

This article goes into details behind the decision. (written by lawyer)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago

If we WANTED to do it - we would do it. Scholz is just fishing for excuses that don’t make him look bad.

Example: If Germany goes to war (which by law would only allow a defensive war or since a Supreme Court ruling also UN or NATO wars) our Grundgesetz demands that all elections are suspended until the war is over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_defence#Extended_electoral_terms

So have you ever heard of suspended elections because of German war participation somewhere on our world? No? That’s because the wars Germany participated in were being reframed. You can find all wars here (only German):

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auslandseinsätze_der_Bundeswehr

If we really WANT to do it, not even our constitution can stop us.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No, that's bullshit. The media is telling two dozen reasons and then the only actual reason mentioned is put in a row as just another excuse unthough all the others were invented by journalists.

Germany is indeed not allowed to because that's in the constitution. Maybe you read it for once to see why they actually can't send soldiers to other countries without a complete vote in parliament. Yes... that constitution is influenced by history. But simplifying that issue so much it's none-sensical just to tell another lie of how they are either afraid or ashamed to do anything against Russa is still a blatant lie.

But hey. We all know you will not allow yourself to ever acknowledge facts. Because hating your government because of lies you tell yourself makes everything so much easier, as we see in moronic elections right now again.

These "cowards" are actually one of Ukraines biggest supporters. While the only thing you support is the fight against democracy by parroting lies and bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But hey. We all know you will not allow yourself to ever acknowledge facts. Because hating your government because of lies you tell yourself makes everything so much easier, as we see in moronic elections right now again.

You could've just omitted that part, you know. It makes you look like a giant douche and makes the discussion less civilized.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago

Being civil and nice to people lying or parroting bullshit is what brought us to this point of total media shitshow where it's only about narratives and personal opinions and not about facts anymore.

If people have relearned to check facts and distinguish those from the lies they like to believe I will reconsider my approach. For now I definitely care more about calling out bullshit than for nice words.