this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2025

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To those in countries where democracy might last another election - harm reduction is not optional (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Well yeah but the one of the people who voted for ice cream downvoted a post about gaza one time so CLEARLY the entire bus sacrificing themselves just in case it might save gaza is the better option. Also there's an atomic bomb factory in a heavily populated area at the bottom of the cliff so basically the same amount of people as the entire population of gaza are going to die if this happens but protecting Gaza is more important than protecting loved ones apparently.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

Meanwhile, the people who want ice cream:

1000048903

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah.... But also, Carlin was right saying this shit is all a stage. We've got groups of bullies picking on us, and I'd rather throw bricks than help them decide who to pick on next.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

You can throw bricks 363 days out of the year and reduce harm 2 days out of the year. If you live in a state with easy mail-in ballots allowed, you can throw bricks 364.8 days out of the year and reduce harm .2 days out of the year.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

If "harm" and "less harm" are the only two options, then the only question is how quickly you die. There's the argument that we have to do "harm reduction" in order to buy time to organize for something better, but we've been procrastinating for decades apparently. Since all of history informs us that humans act only when inaction is no longer tenable (and sometimes not even then), really the only material difference between "harm reduction" and accelerationism is, again, the timeline.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

If “harm” and “less harm” are the only two options, then the only question is how quickly you die.

You're absolutely right, as a wise leftist in the vein of this thinking recently said, we're all going to die anyway, so what's the point?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

That's not even remotely the same vein of thinking, even though both Ernst and I used the word "die."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

It's not? The argument in both is that increasing harm doesn't matter because everyone dies in the end, and the timeframe wherein people die thus shouldn't matter to decision-making. Would you like to explain how that's not the same vein of thinking?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

The harm or less harm are thanks to Ordinal voting.

First Past the Post is the absolute worst offender, but every single Ordinal voting system will eventually devolve into a forced choice between this or that.

Thankfully there are Cardinal voting systems. Those always boil down to the word and. For example, I can say that I support getting ice cream, and sandwiches, and a slushy, and even just finishing the route, but not going over that cliff.

My support for any given item is counted independently of my support for any other option.

To see what option wins, you just look at total support.

Different Cardinal systems have their own little quirks, but the key in all of them is that ability to give multiple items identical levels of support.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

The people who want to get ice cream are also helping a psychopath murder innocent civilians so it's a bit of a toss up

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

It really isn't

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, good thing the people who want to go over the cliff aren't helping a psychopath murder innocent civilians.

... they actually want to increase the assistance to that psychopath so they can murder more innocent civilians?

Huh.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

So you admit that framing the choice as "choose between getting ice cream and dying" is incredibly misleading. The choice is really "choose between 500,000 innocent people being murdered or 2,000,000 innocent people being murdered"

The conclusion isn't as obvious when you ask that question is it? I know you're gonna say you still pick the 500,000 innocents dying anyday. But then don't lie about what the choice was to make yourself feel better.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

So you admit that framing the choice as “choose between getting ice cream and dying” is incredibly misleading.

Considering that "Palestinians being murdered" was not on the ballot either way? No, not really. Our choice was between "Fascism" and "Democrats making marginal improvements", and you ghouls chose to campaign for fascism to win. Congratulations.

The conclusion isn’t as obvious when you ask that question is it?

No, the conclusion is just as obvious if you aren't a fascist who thinks that more minorities dying is a good thing. But I understand that the lives of the marginalized don't matter in comparison to your need to feel smug and morally 'pure'. Enjoy the blood on your hands.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

The results of your campaign came in a while ago now. It's bold to stick with a losing strategy but I gotta admire the moxy

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

"You lost the election, therefore, you are wrong."

How unsurprising that you simp for the fascists after working so hard to see their victory through.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Which side do you think is more realistic to change later on? The people who want ice cream, at the very least, want to live.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

The politicians that are on the "ice cream" side only talk about "ice cream" when it helps them win elections, they spend every other moment arming psychopaths at the behest of their wealthy ~~donors~~ owners

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Posts like this are literally driving a wedge into the people who don't want the bus to fall off the cliff, and dividing them.

This has to be a psyop launched by cliff voters, right? They are probably laughing looking at y'all tearing into each other....

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

Everyone's upset about the vegan ice cream voters not voting for regular ice cream.

No one is upset at the regular ice cream people for being unwilling to vote for a vegan ice cream place because their choice is default in their mind.

Both sides are holding each other hostage. One has a moral reason and the other just doesn't want to compromise.

And yet.

[–] null_dot 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Thats not a viable choice though.

The viable choices were ice cream or cliff. Choosing vegan ice cream is functionally equivalent to not voting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Genocide isn't a viable choice.

[–] null_dot 1 points 1 hour ago

Yes it is. Trump campaigned on genocide and got elected.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Thank you for helping get Trump elected

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I’m kinda upset about the cliff-driver voters too tbf

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

T r u e

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

I keep being told I'm a fascist for voting for the harm reduction by people on lemmy though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

Indeed, "word up." Although, the voting machines received upgrades and who knows what really occurred.

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