Only in America.
No ballots, not the problem for the voter. If the voter wants to vote, get them a ballot, even if you have to order a transfer.
My country is on the fast lane for fascism as well but we still follow electoral law.
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Only in America.
No ballots, not the problem for the voter. If the voter wants to vote, get them a ballot, even if you have to order a transfer.
My country is on the fast lane for fascism as well but we still follow electoral law.
FREE & FAIR ELECTIONS OR GTFO
The election is unique in that it is organized and managed by the district itself, not the Louisiana Secretary of State's office, and seats on the board are rarely contested. The race for this particular seat is reported to be the first ever.
So perhaps some degree of incompetence/not having any clue how many people would show up. Not necessarily malicious intent. Seems like it was such a shitshow it'll force a redo. Clearly it should.
So perhaps some degree of incompetence/not having any clue how many people would show up.
The age old question "Were they stupid or evil?"
I guess we'll see who wins the seat. If it just so happens to be an industry flak who toes the line every time the local oligarchs snap their fingers and gets generous kickbacks for the effort without ever being questioned, I'm putting my money on "evil". If its a clueless perennial candidate who just throws their hat into every race, then takes office and blunders around for six months before being removed by the county/state on ethics charges, I'll concede it may just be election management stupidity.
Elections official here, though in a different state.
We had the same thing happen here for a conservation district. Here are a few facts for our situation, it may be different than this news item, but it's similar.
Conservation districts handle their own elections, they aren't done by the state/county.
The last time they had an election, votes were in the low hundreds, this last time votes were in the thousands.
Our conservation district doesn't get "official ballots" they just had something simple and when they needed more they printed more, but they were not prepared for the amount of work involved.
Conservation district elections here are not distributed to all households, they are an "interested parties show up" sort of deal. I believe in the old days you had to be a land owner to vote in then. These days I believe you need to be a resident. I'm the past no one really cared much about them, they decide things like where to plant trees to fight erosion and stuff like that. They aren't making "political" decisions.
Please keep in mind that this wasn't a normal election like you think of, it was more along the lines of an HOA election in terms of how it is conducted.
I don't know if some party just googled "election" and mobilized for this, but this kind of turnout was new and unexpected.
I have no problem believing this district was blindsided by this.
It's important to remember that this is a different sort of election though.
Elections official here, though in a different state.
I'm glad you commented bc I have a question you might be able to answer. The district covers 5 parishes (we do parishes instead of counties) but the news article states the registrar of voters provided the number of 300 ballots at each location and expectation of 20 voters.
Only 3 of the 5 parishes actually had voting locations, so voters from 2 parishes had to travel to vote.
Each parish has its own registrar. It's unclear which parish the registrar that provided that estimate is from, but why would anyone expect the estimated number of voters in smaller parishes to be exactly the same as larger parishes?
I don’t know if some party just googled “election” and mobilized for this, but this kind of turnout was new and unexpected.
The only reason there was an election is because the incumbent candidate was suddenly challenged by a commercial fishing captain. Keep this in mind, and remember that because of our proximity to the gulf, fishing and seafood is still a pretty big industry for the state.
It was all very odd, and caught people's attention mainly because:
A. Typically people on the board hold these seats unchallenged for as long as they wish to remain on the board.
B. The district covers 5 parishes, but this board member is from New Orleans/Orleans Parish. She runs several urban gardens and contributes to local farmers markets. This is likely why she was able to mobilize so many voters, and why the news of the vote spread like it did.
C. Some weird things that have happened regarding voting the last two times the city voted, has everyone on high alert for attempts to sneak corruption through without people realizing it.
The election was on Saturday. As it turns out, the Tuesday before the election, the Louisiana Senate President had signed a bill to change the regulation process for seafood safety and testing. It is still sitting on the governor's desk, just waiting to be signed.
The bill also gives oversight of seafood regulation to the Louisiana Department of Agriculture and Forestry. The conservation board the candidates were running for also just happens to fall under the jurisdiction of this same department.
Louisiana lawmakers send seafood safety, oversight bill to Landry's desk
House Bill 652, authored by Rep. Timothy Kerner, R-Lafitte, dissolves the current Seafood Safety Task Force under the Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism and reestablishes it within the Agriculture Department.
Kerner said the bill was carefully amended to ensure that domestic shrimpers are not inadvertently swept up in new enforcement efforts.
If this is all be one big coincidence, it certainly is an odd one. Rather than risk some kind of typical Louisiana good ole boy corruption BS, why not just allow everyone that wants to vote, the chance to vote?
It turns out the incumbent candidate from New Orleans won, but they're not releasing any numbers of how many votes she actually won compared to the other candidate.
I voted for her, but I still strongly believe they should call for a re-do bc this all sets a very bad precedent for the future. Even though it's not a normal election, our tax dollars fund this board. You should not be able to turn voters away, and then just shrug it off as incompetence or special circumstance.
Well shoot... My whole comment just disappeared. I'll do bullet points.
Even though my state is vote by mail, smaller districts like the conservation district follow different rules based on their founding documents and may do elections completely differently. Ours did theirs in person because that's what their framework is.
Ballot ordering should be based on history. If they only had that little available, it suggests to me that may have been historically sufficient. What was the turnout last time? How much money would it be worth spending on ballots and polling places for that many/few voters?
I agree that they shouldn't be turning anyone away. In my state we can print ballots on demand if we need them. I wish every state was invested in preventing disenfranchisement.
This was the first of its kind of election in the district, so I would really like to know where they got those estimated numbers, and if they went only by one parish voter registrar when determining the numbers for 5 different parishes
How are we still giving Republicans the benefit of the doubt? What will it take?
Hey now, its Louisiana. No shortage of corrupt legacy Democrats. William Jefferson being a hallmark example.
The whole state is pay-2-play. Also, incidentally, an absolute hotbed of smuggling and espionage going back to the Huey Long era. Tons of Soviet-Era spying. Tons of FBI ratfvcking. Tons of mob activity. Like, when you hear about the CIA move coke in from Colombia, it's a coin-flip chance the product was moved through Miami or New Orleans.
That's the thing though, is it just incompetence or is it an attempt to see what people are willing to let slide?
We definitely need a re-do bc otherwise it signals that we're ok with letting it happen again and again. Will there be enough ballots when it's time for us to vote for elections with more at stake like mayor or in the midterms?
I could see low expectations from the registrar of voters for turnout, but 60 people in the entire city? And they just didn't have any kind of plans if more showed up?
We're the first state to start using the DOGE voter database maintenance system. Will we end up with some kind of "glitch" that purges voters on top of being told the registrar made a miscalculation when estimating how many people would actually show up to vote?
I could see low expectations from the registrar of voters for turnout, but 60 people in the entire city? And they just didn’t have any kind of plans if more showed up?
This is the kind of election where usually only people who specifically are invested in the thing bother, I wouldn't be surprised if the last time one of these happened they literally did average about 20 votes per polling place, and their plan if more showed up was supplying 15x more ballots than they needed last time, just in case. Which wasn't remotely enough.
The thing is this was the first of its kind election for this district, so where did those estimates even come from? If you give a number it's got to be from somewhere right?
And they were just paper ballots. Nothing special about them. Here's a picture of one of the ballots
Literally nobody could find a printer and some scissors and tell voters they would have more ballots in an hour or so?
This is the kind of election where usually only people who specifically are invested in the thing bother
This is exactly why so many people showed up. The district encompasses 5 parishes. Both candidates represent different parts of the district with different interests at stake.
The incumbent candidate lives in New Orleans, runs urban gardens around the city, and used her position on the board to create a program that has allowed others to create more gardens and rent tools through the program.
The candidate that challenged her is a commercial fisherman from a smaller town. The department that has jurisdiction over the board is set to be given oversight of testing for seafood safety and regulations. The bill is literally just sitting on the Governor's desk waiting to be signed.
I am honestly kind of suspicious of the candidate that challenged her bc he never mentioned this while he was running.
Putting that aside, and assuming his intentions were good, I could also see why many voters in smaller communities within the district, who depend on the fishing industry for jobs, would want someone like him to have the position on the board.
The incumbent was announced the winner, and that's who I voted for. I still believe there should be a re-do. Voters were turned away from an election that their tax dollars paid for. Unacceptable.
The one thing I'll say in their defense is that a water district board seat, in a special election, is not typically something that generates votes. Perhaps they did that on purpose, thinking the low turnout would help one candidate. We're talking about school board election numbers. The kind of thing where a bus full of people could swing the whole election.
You'll know if it was on purpose or not immediately when we see who won and if they try to stick with the result. If they were out of ballots at 9 am, then they shouldn't even try to count the votes or declare a winner. With the need for a redo being so obvious.
Nah, there's been a few recent elections and ballot initiatives that are explicitly designed to undermine democracy and set up separate courts. This is definitely on purpose.
I'm willing to agree with malicious intent if they try keep the result. There should be no need to count the ballots, with the need to redo being so obvious.
Election officials: "Nonsense! If an excess of voters show up we will be happy to provide waxed paper and ballpoint pens for them to vote with."
Electronic voting is not safe, print and cut more paper!
Yes, I'm sure no one has ever tampered with paper ballots. Right.
Much easier to protect and verify than any electronic system
Except they have a much higher rate of lost or miscounted ballots.
But the two methods can be used together to create an improved system: electronic ballots with a printed 'receipt'. My state uses this method. Before submitting your ballot, it displays the paper receipt and asks you to confirm your choices. If it's incorrect or you want to change it, you can reject the ballot and it is immediately voided in front of you. If it's fine, you press a button and it submits both the digital and paper copies of your ballot.
Election monitors can then validate the calculated results against the paper receipts.
If you really wanted to be security minded, you could go a step further - have the ballot printing machines keep a per-machine count of ballots they've done and print a ballot with human readable votes and a barcode detailing the same. Have a second machine scan those ballots and drop them into a locked box. None of them are connected to a network or have an accessible open port anywhere on them. There is however a locked access panel on the back of each machine where an SD card is inserted. As ballots are printed and scanned each machine's SD card records what happens. The two types of machines are made by different manufacturers and validated by a third party.
At close of polls, all the machines are asked to report their results. If there is a discrepancy between what the ballot printers report and what the ballot scanners report, it's time for a manual recount of that polling location. Then the SD cards are pulled from all the machines and shipped to the relevant election board to check the contents against the reports. Also manual recount 5% of polling locations (minimum one) selected at random. If discrepancies show up in more than a 1% of polling locations, manual recount the entire election. For all these manual recounts, the human readable portion of the paper ballot is the final authority.
So you still need to count all the paper votes, and hope they didn't use disappearing ink or any other bullshit
Yes, you also need to hope they're not building android replicas of all the voters, too.
What they're supposed to start doing here (or at least they were when the last governor left office, not sure if they still will do it now that democracy is crumbling) is paper and then scan every ballot so it can also be included in recounts.
As of now with most elections in LA, it's electronic only and votes don't get included in recounts unless they're mail in.
It's not paper ballots I'm pissed about, (but like I said, it also seems like that could open up the door to more BS given what happened in the recount) it's the fact that anyone would pretend 900 ballots would be enough for the entire city, and that they had no backup plan for when they weren't.
In NY we have these amazing devices, where they can adhere a chemical to blank ballots before voters mark them to be scanned.
It's a fairly obscure tech, kind of like an additive manufacturing rig that, instead of adding one plane at a time to build a 3D physical thing from the bottom up, uses small rows of line segments to create a two-dimensional image. These "printers" used to be widespread, but still do have enough niche uses that the government was able to acquire some fairly easily.
It's also going to make that lawsuit in New Paltz very interesting.
Multiple checks and balances are required for paper, too.
And electronic voting goes against the principles of a fair and free election.
One of the principles of such an election is that a layman can understand the process to verify the legitimacy of the election. The average citizens needs to be able to understand the election process.
Electronic voting either allows the state to track who voted for what and/or allows people to vote multiple times, or it is not possible for a layman to verify the legitimacy of the election.
Electronic voting are just plain anti democratic.
Edit: I am ignoring here the simple fact that closed source code is unverifiable and any voting machine running with e.g. windows would return unverifiable results. So I am ignoring the issues of the software stack of this machines, which we shouldn't.
Paper Elections are dead easy and safe to perform
There is a reason nearly no one other real democratic country uses stupid voting machines, but undemocratic shitholes like Russia love electronic voting and machines
It’s not checks that are the issue, but the scalability of the offensive and the inevitable opaqueness of countermeasures.
Surely there is a cryptographic way to count votes where someone can check that the results are correct but not how individuals voted, right?
Now you have to trust the software used to do this, the algorithm itself, and that there was no tampering before the data got stored. Which is something truly verifiable by a very tiny subset of population and even then with full cooperation from authorities. This is the opaqueness of countermeasures.
Vote counting is not a mathematical problem, but a sociological one. Any „always correct machine” is useless if people can’t reasonably trust it.
Paper ballots don’t scale - you can’t stuff ballots without someone being present - and are designed exactly in the problem space vote counting itself occupies. As an additional evidence in their favor, autocratic regimes and corrupt politicians are way too eager to switch to electronic voting.
That’s the whole point of crypto though, you publish the mathematically verifiable results, and everyone becomes a vote counter. Instead of trusting a small group of people to do it right, you can verify the counts yourself in a trustless system.
The algorithm isn’t a black box like you’re saying, it’s fully auditable and decentralized so any fuckery is immediately visible.
Now maybe I’m wrong and a mathematically verifiable algorithm can’t exist, but to my knowledge that’s never been shown to be the case.
Edit: turns out there are MANY such systems, and they are mathematically verifiable, and used in actual use cases today. The only thing stopping it is lack of political will, and arguably, the fact that even people without computers have the right to vote.
You do not have to trust the software. You could do that math for yourself if you really cared.
You're thinking about the voting problem wrong, specifically not including all of the requirements
The algorithm isn’t a black box like you’re saying, it’s fully auditable and decentralized so any fuckery is immediately visible.
Their point is that even in this system, there is both a small and finite number of people who are skilled enough/qualified enough to perform that audit. I'm not sure I've got the math to be able to validate a blockchain transaction by hand without referring to a (potentially tainted) source repo. There's a world where blockchain voting can solve this problem, but the competing requirements make it the less-optimal solution compared with paper voting.
Specifically, there are 3 potentially competing requirements for a secure voting system in a functioning democracy:
Blockchains, potentially, optimize the voting problem for #1 while introducing explicit exposure in #s 2 and 3, while paper ballots optimize for 2 first, then 3.
Woah woah woah, I said nothing about blockchain. That would almost certainly be the wrong, overly complex solution. The systems that exist for cryptographic voting do hit ALL your points while having the additional benefit of being perfectly auditable.
Cryptography is a much larger field than blockchain, and people use it for trusted communication every day.
I'm sure that exists, yes. But you can't give the voting key to individual voters, because that can be bought. So you're using the same black-box voting machines with all the same attack vectors (or even worse if they're connected to the internet).
The only way to make voting machines safe is to have them print out the ballot, but at that point they're just very expensive pencils.
That's NOT Voter Fraud! Voter Fraud is when TRUMP LOSES!
If you're turned away and have the right to vote then your rights have been violated.
c/microblogpolitics
Just a slight correction in that it doesn't sound like the City of New Orleans has much to do with this election, as it's an election for a district the covers three parishes, the whole region. If anything, it seems like there may have been an effort to provide disproportionally more votes to the two more conservative parishes by giving the same total number of "available votes" to each polling station, whereas Orleans Parish could've hands-down elected their preferred candidate otherwise.
I actually found out it covers 5 parishes but they only had voting locations in 3, which makes the first come first serve thing even more bizarre.
The election was for one member on a board. The only reason there was an election was because a new candidate challenged the incumbent candidate, which usually never happens. Usually people remain on the board for as long as they would like to hold that position. Why this seat in particular?
The incumbent is the only board member from Orleans, and runs community gardens throughout the city, so I would argue that if anything, Orleans has a considerable amount to do with this particular election. How did the registrar even come up with that number if this is the first of its kind of election for this district?
I believe another member of the board will have a seat that can be challenged soon. If that seat is challenged, whichever Parish that board member is from hopefully gets a lot of support behind them of the people of the parish feel they're doing a good job.
Also find it a little suspicious, this guy challenging her seat is a commercial fishing captain, and recently Louisiana Republicans passed a bill to deregulate seafood safety and hand oversight to the department that controls this board.
Actually found out the district covers 5 parishes but they only had voting locations in 3.
There is a separate registrar for each parish, so who is the "official" registrar they mention in the article and how did she generate that expect around 20 voters at each location number?