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No not illegal. But how do you imagne it would happen?
How Russia would stop the invasion they started?
Maybe leave Ukraine?
I’m not sure I’m understanding what you’re asking.
Ok and what about the people who stay there? Civilians.
https://www.politico.eu/article/in-ukraine-collaboration-cases-arent-always-clear-cut/
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/08/europe/ukraine-hunt-for-collaborators-intl/index.html
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-crimea-9da550b396f42cc267a4808bf99d5e6d
Oops your passport expired, you cannot renew it as you are currently in occupied territory. Oops you are no longer a Ukrainian citizen so move out.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/russia-forcing-ukrainian-passports-us-report
Great, everyone who lives on the occupied territories looses everything, no police ( prob in prison for or executed), no judges, lawlessness, where random militarily March in without anyone to stop em, that and if we ignore the fact that there are alot of Nazis who hate East Ukrainians and Russians, under perfect conditions the civilans just would need to get out, without anything.
And now imagne how many families would have someone in they're familie who fought on the Russian side. ( as if you remember it was a civilwar 14-20 in the beginnng ).
“Maybe leave Ukraine“, would not stop the war it would just put civilans on the front line.
So you are saying the invasion cannot be stopped or someone with an expired passport won't be able to renew it? Okay then, I guess there is no other option but continue then..
No. Expired passport means they have to take the Russian one. And if you have a Russian passport you will be forced out.
Says who exactly?
Ukraines plans with Russian citizens if they win the war.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-crimea-9da550b396f42cc267a4808bf99d5e6d
That's not quite the same as your claim regarding those who were originally Ukrainian citizens and who would supposedly be forced out. You're contradicting yourself or disregarding your own statement.
They absolutely do not have to take the russian one.
Expired passports happen all over the world. They just get renewed.
Which means they can just rip up the illegal passports they got forced upon them from soldiers from an illegal invasion.
Where? In a Ukranian Embassy? There is none on occupied territory.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/russia-forcing-ukrainian-passports-us-report
And Ukraine sad countless times that anyone taking these is a traitor. Even if its enforced.
Put down the crack pipe.
Because they lived there before the war.
No, there is something stopping them from accepting them as citizens. The laws Ukraine has set in place.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/03/russia-forcing-ukrainian-passports-us-report https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-crimea-9da550b396f42cc267a4808bf99d5e6d
About those who where there pre 2014. They took up Russian citizenship. Now they count as collaborators and traitors. If you for example are policemen, doctor or have anything to do with the goverment, under Russian occupation you go to prison, as a traitor.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/08/europe/ukraine-hunt-for-collaborators-intl/index.html
If people supporting the Russian occupation don't want to get detained by Ukraine, they can leave for Russia before Ukraine frees that territory.
Like the two brothers this article is about.
Also, what would you describe people as that help an occupier annex your territory and build up the occupiers control over it, if not collaborateurs?
If they truly wanted to only help their people, they can argue that in court. Because as a country striving to become a fully fledged democracy, they will get a chance to defend themselves in Ukraine, as opposed to getting thrown out of windows, like in Russia.
Are doctors ever considered collaborateurs? If they rat out soldiers, sure, but I haven't heard Ukraine trying doctors for doing their job. If anything, they are lauded for continuing their job, like the operators at Chernobyl were, when they worked under Russian occupation.
You must be a troll checking if anyone is reading the articles you linked, right? This has to be an elaborate joke, right?
Per the very article you linked:
But thats, exactly what I ment?
It says that there is a Russian law that forces Ukrainans to take on a Russian passport by threatening to deport or incarcerate them for not having a Russian passport! The paragraph describes exactly what you claimed, but for Russia, not Ukraine.
Yes. Now they got the passports.
Now read what happens when they got it. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-crimea-9da550b396f42cc267a4808bf99d5e6d
As per the article you linked:
His three-point plan:
Also, this was published on Facebook. Everyone knows how central Facebook is in relaying official Ukrainian positions. /s
Where does it say that all Ukrainians with Russian passports are going to get kicked out of Ukraine? That's right, nowhere. Your assumption is pure conjecture and wishfulness.
As per the other articles, you know collaborators are picked just because.
And you think from the hundreds of thousand of collaborators they will punish them mildly and selectivity?
Yea but also per Ukrainian law you are not allowed to hold two citizensships. Hence you either dont have one or are a Russian for the Ukrainian goverment.
Then they will have an excelent defense in court. There they can argue for their innocence. Russias treatment of suspected traitors has been quite different. You can try to make your case, but you can't really argue with gravity while falling out of a window, now can you?
Yes. Because Ukraine is striving to be a democracy and already is moreso than Russia ever was, because the eyes of the Western world in combination with the pressure that comes with being dependent on Western aid will keep Ukraine in line and because Ukrainians understand that their fellow countrymen were subjected to intense pressures by the Russian occupation.
And you think Ukraine wouldn't allow its citizens to simply throw their forced Russian passport in the trash?
Can you articulate what you’re trying to argue a little clearer?
If Ukraine wins. Most civilans living in Crimea and in the occupied territories, as ukraines plan decrees, have to leave the country. If they somehow still only have the Ukrainian citizenship they are barred from any job that has any ties to the goverment.
Also anyone with a goverment position who helped, so any policemen, doctor, teacher, etc will probability be judged as a collaborator and hence a traitor.
So imagne the regular Ukrainian Army moves in. With some nationalistic hatred that exists. You will have armed men while everyone around em is an enemy, and there is no one to stop you, some people will resort to self justice. Hence the metaphor of putting civilans on the front line.
Yeah... I'm pretty sure Putin doesn't care about those people or anyone not named Putin. He can stop attacking whenever he wants. He won't, because that's admitting weakness.
OK. Tell me what would the Ukrainians do if he stopped.
They'd start rebuilding all the infrastructure (read: homes, schools and hospitals) that Russia managed to destroy in the past two years?
You mean the citizens that putin forced to live in their illegally occupied territories?
Oh no, now they will have to go back to where they used to live, the horror!
If you have read the thread or the articles you would know that that could mean either prison, death or being forced out.
It’s okay because Boris Johnson said Putin can’t pull out.
That was a strange sentence to type.
Lol
Here is a map 200 yrs later.
So no Crimea for Ukraine.
Well it does. Russia is a federation composed of states with they're historic borders.
Do you mean Ukraine? No. I would prefer a three alliance sollution, where Baltic states, poland, Ukraine, serbia, and some other countries join a military alliance. Strong enough to stand on they're own. Wich is neutral towards NATO and Russia. Hence there would be stratigic balance between NATO and Russia. Russia would not bee needing to fear NATO nuclear weapons on their border while NATO would have a puffer zone towards Russia. This Baltic Alliance could be the trading crossroads while also having much closer ties and stronger garantees to each other. ( there is a common fear that if one of the smaller NATO countries would be attacked that article 5 wouldnt be enacted upon due to the “insignificance“ of the smaller country. )
Additionaly if Russia or NATO tried taking their independence they could join up for an alliance with the other one.
True, I dont want a nuclear war.
Historic borders are called like that because they are history, not current.
Well either keep those that are. Or kill more people to have em moved. Wich you like more?