this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
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What? That’s insane. You want all threads to have to mention Tiananmen Square?
Yes.
Thought it would be fun to see with how lot of celebrities upon mistakenly acknowledging Taiwan as a country would profusely apologize so they don't get canceled by China. Blizzard comes to mind too. I'd like to see what Reddit does.
So every comment or thread is normal just at the end you'd have to write down. So functionally everything is the exact same. People post what they normally do and subreddits can stay on topic. Only the requirement of:
#Taiwanisacountry #TiananmenSquaremassacre1989
I suggested it to /r/modcoord and /r/save3rdpartapps but the request remains in mod queue due to being a new account after deleting old one.
But, yes for pure potential chaos of the headlines Reddit might make if they ban talks of Taiwan being a country and Tiananmen Squaremassacre 1989 is what I would love to see.
If TiananmenSquaremassacre1989 is too extreme. Then Taiwan is a country would suffice with it having caused Capitalist hungry Western companies to cave to the might of China and grovel.
In China, talking about TiananmenSquaremassacre1989 is LESS extreme than saying Taiwan is a country.
The CCP has brainwashed enough citizens to believe that the government did the right thing in 1989, even if you show them the massacre footage. They think the students were terrorists who deserved to be crushed.
On the other hand, most people in China believe that saying Taiwan is a country would be the biggest crime you can imagine.
well the CCP has effectively incorporated Tiananmen Square into the propaganda. it's become a part of the national narrative - it was "a conflicted time where there were bad decisions made by both sides and they learned from it and are stronger today because of it." - please don't call me a tankie i'm trying to summarize CCP narrative
so it's not really taboo to talk about in China like people assume it is. same thing with the cultural revolution. I read the "three body problem" series by a Chinese author (really good books, if anybody likes sci-fi) and I was amazed at how critical he was of the cultural revolution
and i checked, and he's not an ex-patriate or anything.. he lives in China and released a book that became internationally succesful that was critical of the chinese government during the cultural revolution
it turns out that the CCP actually does allow some level of critique - because they view themselves today as a different party than existed 30 or 50 years ago.
Taiwan, on the other hand, is a current issue. Personally, I feel bad for the taiwanese that don't want to be integrated into China but it does seem like an inevitability at this point.
i'm not sure what you are trying to say. you mean taiwan just needs to stay de facto independent for another few decades and they will be OK? maybe you are right, but to call Taiwan "the government of China" is to ignore reality
point being look who has a seat at the UN
while pretending like this might be fun for you, reality is it's never going to happen. even if CCP falls apart, the state apparatus in mainland China for whatever fills the void would still be stronger than Taiwan. They're like 2 factors of magnitude larger. and that's assuming CCP falls apart - the momentum doesn't seem to be going in that direction
It's like saying Texas will be independent again one day. It's a larp
differences between west germany / east germany v taiwan / china
1 - population
east germany 1989 - Around 16 million
west germany 1989 - Around 62 million
east germany was about 1/4th the size of west germany in terms of population
taiwan current - Around 23 million
china current - Around 1.4 billion
china has about 61x the population of taiwan in terms of population
2 - gdp
east germany 1989 - around $300 billion
west germany 1989 - around $1.5 trillion
east germany was about 1/5th the size of west germany in terms of GDP
taiwan current - around $760 billion
china current - around $17 trillion
china has about 13x the size of taiwan's GDP
3 - time period separated
germany - around 41 years
china - around 74 years
china and taiwan have been separated nearly double the time as germany - with no reunification in sight
So in the case of East Germany vs West Germany, the West was significantly larger both in terms of GDP and population. West Germany was about 4x~5x bigger and was able to incorporate the East because they were bigger. In addition, they were separated for a shorter amount of time.. the longer it goes on the more complicated it gets.
If we look at Taiwan and China, Chinese economy and population is somewhere between 1 and 2 factors of magnitude larger. Taiwan simply does not have the capacity to incorporate China. The state apparatus in mainland China is absolutely massive - it's hard to fathom how many bureaucrats are needed to effectively run that country.
Having said all that, looking at the future of China, I sincerely doubt there will be a democratic revolution. The approval rating for the CCP is very high (much higher than democratic countries in the West). China has historically been authoritarian. They have taken the capitalist model and effectively used it in an authoritarian state. It works well for them and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Of course, nobody can tell the future. With the accelerating pace of technology and the inevitable climate change and who knows how much radical change there will be in the coming decades.
there are 10 million bureaucrats in china
that's already half of the population of taiwan alone. the city of shanghai has a bigger population than taiwan
yes, it is. it's logistically impossible. i tried to elaborate on why because to hold a belief like you do someone must not know all of the obvious facts
it's very possible. it's happening right now in Hong Kong. China just takes over and slowly integrates it and removes the democracy bit by bit. I think it's so strange how you make a comment pretending reality is some way when it isn't. I get it - I support Taiwan too. I prefer Democracies over authoritarian regimes. But let's be real here
independent organizations have done studies in China. they really do support the CCP. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
it's sort of a side effect from the "heavenly mandate" idea in China. they've always had authoritarian leaders. as long as the economy is doing well the people tolerate anything. and china has been growing fast for decades now
i think you need to disconnect your ideology from the analysis. you will never see beyond your nose if you take ideology too seriously in these types of affairs
there have been many smarter people than you or I doing analysis of CCP approval rating and it's always much much higher than our democratic countries in the west. read the article i sent you from harvard. look up more on google. or put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, whatever. again - doesn't change the reality of the situation
people are pleased that their economic position is much better than their grandparents. and as long as economic growth keeps happening, that will remain true.
i don't like to put my head in the sand and pretend like ideology trumps reality. no matter how much i prefer a free open society i have read the research. i have seen the news. i know CCP has higher approval rating than any democratic country. this isn't one or two studies. this is the consensus for decades.
chinese people are happy with CCP. same thing with Putin in Russia. just because a country is authoritarian and brutal does not mean they cannot have high approval ratings. the difference is they are contingent on a few very important things
china is economic growth. putin is not appearing weak - making russians feel strong. if CCP cannot guarantee that economic growth for too long a period of time, it will fall apart. they lose the "heavenly mandate"
no it's "obsurd" that you totally ignore the opinions of 1.4 billion people in China. read some chinese history. the emperor had the mandate and everything ran smoothly or he didn't and there was civil war.
government legitimacy means different things for different forms of government
having said all that, you are not truly wanting to discuss geopolitics here. you want to larp and play a game of alt-history and that's fine i guess but at least put a disclaimer
The most foolproof way to piss of the Chinese is to say "Taiwan, Number 1".
I think people don't understand you're claiming that the CCP are illegitimate and that the government in Taipei on Taiwan is the actual valid government of China. Or, more or less the opposite of what the CCP likes to claim.