vegan

There can be thought for change in living for the sake of abused animals, the great harm to the earth, the greater use of resources, and even a better healthy way possible for any of us that is not costly, with not using animal products still. There are ways not really hard to do that, with finding alternatives that will really be liked. I know some things I really like very much and will stay this way gladly.

My current working strategy is a ham hock and chicken stock. I would like to switch to something that doesn’t involve dead animals.

(As a side note - I’ve noticed that if I leave my beans soaking for a little longer, they seem to bubble and ferment. Could I possibly make alcohol this way?)

Whole food plant-based eating is indeed healthy, and I have had this way nearly a decade, though I have been vegan longer. I notice the benefits. Animal agriculture is contributing more to problems in the world including loss of environments and extinctions of species. Why need animals kept abusively and slaughtered for what we would still have from them?

I didn't. What the fuck!

My problem: chicken drumsticks are very cheap - like five bucks for enough I can divide up and make three meals out of. I marinate them in different hot sauces, then I can wrap them in foil and put them in the oven. For extra dopamine I eat them with blue cheese sauce.

The other cheap options are things like velveeta with canned chicken or fish, or chef Boyardee ravioli.

I don’t like eating meat or dairy for the clear ethical reasons and would like to go vegan. I was vegan for about a year or so, but I also have the kind of ARFID where I will let myself starve if there are not those kinds of “high dopamine” foods available.

I’d like some kind of close, cheap, easy approximation. When I was vegan, I had the financial resources to buy a lot of prepared food that met that quick/stimulating need, but I no longer have those resources to do so.

The closest to making something like that work for me is soy curl + coconut milk + curry seasonings. I don’t have the capacity to eat vegetables most days - this is not healthy, but I also physically cannot force myself to do so.

I know lentils are good and don’t require soaking, but I cannot get them to taste good. Indian restaurants make them perfect, but I can’t do it myself.

Studies are not showing animals do not feel pain, but to the contrary, any being used do. Rather than deal with the cognitive dissonance it is better for even just mental health to decide to avoid the contribution to suffering with just choosing nothing taken from animals for what to have or to eat. And the extinction rate of species is related to food choices, that alone gives very great reason to not use products from animals anymore. Of course there is the healthiest way without products from animals when avoiding processed stuff that gets added in things, I have tasty meals with this way.
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/population_and_sustainability/food/ Really it is about finding other things as alternatives to eat which you really love having, especially any that are healthy. Treat yourself to those often. You can then pretty much forget those things that you saw good reason to give up. I have gone through a number of changes that included this way, it's been working really well.

For years, a powerful ‘Big Ag’ trade group served up information on activists to the FBI. Records reveal a decade-long effort to see the animal rights movement labeled a “bioterrorism” threat.

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45813091

Live-animal markets are a natural laboratory for viruses to evolve and spark deadly outbreaks, yet scientists lack support to study the risks they pose.

This is a group chat for the private message app Signal. I want to foster a community of privacy conscious vegans and just engage in casual and serious discussions. All fun! (Also to plot war) Usernames are now a thing on signal, and hiding your personal phone number is the default setting on Signal as well.

Come and join and say hi!

https://signal.group/#CjQKIO7dYi6nILZIookBisOLRj4Aer3kYLrOk490Nw1810Q_EhBouUBD6COdD56uw__dZoSo

So according to the ethics of veganism it's about valuing sentient life and animal consent.

So I pose a few questions.

1. Is it justified to buy animal based dog and cat food?

2. Is it justifiable to force a dog or cat to be vegan?

If 1 is justifiable then the claim that it's unethical for humans to eat meat is untrue since feeding your pets meat requires more animals to be raised for slaughter.

If 2 is true then it violates animal consent because there are zero dogs or cats that prefer vegan food to meat and infact are naturally omnivorous in the case of dogs or pure carnivores in the case of cats.

So the logical conclusion would be owning meat eating pets in impossible while being vegan.

Then it leads to the ethics of what happened to the breeds of cats and dogs no longer able to be pets.

What has worked best in your experience when you just want to answer the question and survive the interaction without it turning into an all-out war (but you also don't want to lie about what your reasoning for being vegan is just to comfort the other person and fit in, as this feels to me wrong/harmful and disrespectful to the animal movement to mischaracterize what its purpose is)?

I am still trialing this, and haven't experimented with all these responses to the question, but here is what I am thinking may carry the least likelihood of triggering an argument or defensive, hostile, mocking comments etc. And then for fun (as well as clarification of the kinds of responses I am avoiding for this purpose), we can also talk about what responses which we know are going to provoke people. Please list what your go-to answers to this question are, it can help a lot.

Least likely to cause an argument:

"All the reasons." / "Many reasons".

"It just felt right for me."/"It felt like the right thing to do." (Not sure I'm too happy about this one as far as watering down the movement, and its non-specificity, but it's ok - I tried it before [1st version] and person just looked at me strangely and didn't say anything, convo moved on.)

"For the animals."

"For the 'Big 3' reasons: the animals, the planet, and my personal health."

Somewhat likely to cause an argument:

"I couldn't find a good enough justification not to be."

"Because I love/respect animals/animals are cool individuals."

"I learned about the cruelty involved in using animals for food, clothing, etc."

"Because I'm a pacifist."/"Because I'm against violence/I believe in peace, love, respect, ahimsa, etc."

"Because I find what humans are doing to other animals cruel and unnecessary."

"I'm not into the animal industry, it seems rather extreme."

"Because it's the future."

"Because animals are sentient beings."

"Because I believe animals deserve rights e.g. to self-preservation, freedom, autonomy, the pursuit of happiness, etc."

Most likely to cause an argument (these are examples of the kinds of responses that I'm especially wanting to avoid in certain situations and searching for less-inflammatory/provocative, less-blunt alternatives for):

"Why wouldn't I be?"/"It's a moral obligation."

"Because animals didn't consent."

"Non-human animals are non-human persons." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personhood#Non-human_animals )

"Non-human animals are someones, not somethings".

"Because animals are here with us, not for us."/"Because animals are ends in and of themselves, not means to our ends."/"Because the value of an animal is intrinsic, not extrinsic/instrumental"./"I realized we have no right to own and take advantage of another living (sentient) being for our own ends."

"I believe in justice and progress for all sentient beings and the liberation of marginalized groups of individuals."

"I'm ideologically opposed to the institution of systemic animal commodification/domination/objectification/exploitation."

"Because I'm against slavery/injustice/oppression/etc."

"For the same reason you're against eating dogs or humans, but extended consistently."/"For the same reason you're against dog-fighting."/"For the same reason I'm against racism".

"Because meat is murder and dairy is rape (Note: this refers to artificial insemination)".

"I don't like funding/contributing to/participating in holocausts/mass-murder/genocides/speciecides of other species."

"Because I'm not a savage."

"Because I'm not a speciesist".

"Why aren't you?"/"It's not about why I'm vegan. It's about why do you exploit & consume & use the lives and bodies of non-human animals?"

Joke answers (can be effective to soften the conversation and avoid talking about it seriously, but may belie the true intentions of veganism):

"I have a vendetta against plants and I'm on a mission to kill as many plants as possible... oh wait, I'm actually sparing more of them by being vegan than by supporting animal agriculture. That sucks."

"I asked an animal what their preference was and they told me they'd rather not be eaten or used for products."

"I'm avoiding being judged negatively by our descendants when we live in a vegan society."

"I'm part of the evil woke vegan agenda."

"I'm funded by Bill Gates."

Disclaimers:

I know many would say "There is only one reason to be vegan, because veganism is a justice stance about animals - it's not a diet and it's not about health, environment, or any other side-benefit of animal-free living." - Though I don't think it's necessarily a problem to acknowledge those other benefits in addition to focusing on animals. And yes, when I ask about how to answer the question of why one is vegan, I am referring to the definition of veganism that is an ethical philosophy for animals or animal rights, but there are actually a lot of different ways to answer this question truthfully, and you can come at it from many angles. For example, you don't need to list every reason, you can just state one, and it would still be true - as long as it's actually related to the animals from an ethical perspective (I don't want to promote misconceptions about what veganism is). And the particular way in which you describe it - including the exact wording you use - can certainly elicit different responses.

I am totally fine with people who are in social situations answering this question (Why they are vegan) in a way that WILL likely trigger an argument or resistance from the other person, if you're fine with doing that - and it can be a good opportunity for activism, advocacy, misinformation-correcting, etc.

Also, I understand that if stating the truth in a particular way causes an emotional response, defensiveness or counter-arguments, mean comments/mockery/ridicule/bullying, or makes the person become outraged/pearl-clutching and strawman you and accuse you of things you didn't actually say or mean, it's largely on them and isn't your fault. But as unreasonable as people can be, we have to work around them and coexist with them while living in society, and I still would like to be able to, in certain situations where I'm not in the mood for an argument/debate or tense/heated discussion (especially since I do care a lot about the topic), answer the question, which comes up a lot, in a peaceful and amicable manner that basically defuses/avoids the potential conflict and allows us to get on with the social interaction normally.

If it prompts further questioning or curiosity (even in an honest, good-faith manner), that still actually isn't the most ideal (unless I want to talk about it, or I think they're a reasonable person who will understand), since it can lead to opportunities for running into the same problems if the conversation continues and e.g. we reach a point of disagreement, but it doesn't necessarily have to and can in some cases be a rewarding dialogue or simply last for a few more lines and then segue into something else seamlessly.

I also know it's not possible to avoid upsetting/offending people 100% of the time, and some people will inevitably get triggered by your response to the question (whatever it is), or even from the get-go just from knowing you're vegan and taking the chance to express their opinions on the matter or their objection to veganism and justification for not being vegan, concern trolling, mean-spirited teasing, etc. But the goal of finding the "Golden Answer" to this question which I'm searching for, is to reduce the likelihood of negative responses as much as realistically possible, and yet without betraying my true values and beliefs about animals etc (and what veganism is about).

P.S. Since there isn't an AskAVegan server on Lemmy that I know of, and the vegan community here is pretty small and often gets non-vegans commenting in it, I'm just specifying I'd rather only vegans reply to this if that's okay.

A diet that is vegan consisting only of food from plants excludes all animal products. It focuses on fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, and seeds, and can have all necessary nutrients when well-planned. All we need for healthy food that is enough for us is really all from plants, of course it does not exclude vitamin supplements, such can always help anyone.

My diet heavy with potato, celery, cabbage, squash, cucumber, and beans and peas is not having contribution to so much crop animal deaths that feed for the animals used for the meat and dairy demand is having, regardless of what some others claim about what is caused from veganism. Those ones are willingly blind to what there is from them.

Mind boggling.

It has good texture that resembles meat. Is it actually lab grown meat? Is it mushrooms? Is it some kind of vegetable gelatine glued mushroom vegetable mix? It's by far the closets thing yo meat. I love mushrooms though, its my new vegan growth stepping stone.