theinfamousj

I'm a mom and a long time career nanny. In my career, I once had a kid who sleeps the way you are describing yours sleeps, in a twelve-hour straight run. It is a gift with no negative consequences. Grab that glory and don't look back.

My own kid has always had a late bedtime. I'm talking 9 pm. Even when the book said it should be earlier, nope, not my kid.

I learned from following Dr. Pam Douglas that my kid has a huge stimulation appetite and just hadn't built enough sleep pressure due to not actually doing anything or learning much and when I exposed him to a lot, he went to bed for his night sleep earlier and still to this day that's his pattern. He's 11 months and Saturday we went to a La Leche League meeting, a baby shower, a sprayground, and then a friend's house. He went to bed at 5 pm and slept the night through. Sunday, we went to the farmer's market but otherwise puttered around the house and he struggled to fall asleep by 10 pm. But Saturday's level of go-go-go is completely unsustainable for us, so I've come to terms with a later bed time.

Dr. Douglas's research shows that contrary to not-evidence-based opinion, children fuss not from overstimulation but from understimulation and that children in their first year are primed to be the biggest learning sponges they could ever possibly be so seek all the data and most parents do the opposite of meeting that need. 🤷‍♀️ I mean, she's got sources and peer reviewed papers and all. But for me, all I can say is that my kid responds better now and also when he was a newborn to more exposure to the things rather than less exposure to the things. And really, the whole goal is to find what works for the kid you have, right?

Kind of like parenting toddlers: Provide food, sign docs, sling snacks, troubleshoot screens. Except yours can read.

I'm still a parent and I'm a lurker. Weekly discussions sound okay.

My news: We have entered toddler territory.

we’re doing something every week

get them to join us.

Join kid. What does kid like to do? Can you go along to it?

Kid is clearly not part of "we". Kid needs to be part of "we". Otherwise, for all the lip service you are doing about how you are reaching out, you've othered kid.

I said “I’m on my way”, arrived my teen got in the car said “hey” I responded ‘whats up’ and we drove home in silence. No “thanks for picking me up” nothing at all. And when my partner said “you know you could thank your dad for picking you up” my teen responded “I did”. They did not.

The response is, "I hear you telling me that you did. I believe you. Your brain is telling you that you did. My brain is telling me that you didn't. So, help me out here, and do it again so that I can shut my brain up?"

Because you do believe them, right? Otherwise you are insisting they lie to your face. "Hey, I know you aren't thankful whatsoever but I'm going to need you to say the exact opposite to me, k. Give me a full 180 degree lie from your actual feelings on the matter. I'm not interested in you, just in rituals."

Also, it is super great that your kid is rude to you. I know it doesn't seem that way, but it means that despite all the rest of your dysfunctions, kiddo feels secure in your unending support. We fawn where we think we stand to be abandoned. Kiddo isn't fawning. Kiddo knows they won't be abandoned. That's a great seed from which a beautiful relationship can grow once some brambles are trimmed back. (Note, this rude-is-good is only for child-to-parent. No other relationship can this rule be applied to.)

and only take their meds when they “remember”.

Those quotes better be because you are direct quoting them and not because you are trying to induce doubt. It is very well known that people with ADHD have trouble remembering (notice, no quotes here) to take their medication. ADHD is an executive function disorder; meaning they have executive dysfunction. Memory is an executive function. What safety net does the family have for the child's memory failing them? What are your guardrails?

Have you actually planned, strategized, restructured around the needs of one of the inhabitants in your home?

You know the old adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."? Looks like no matter how many times your child has their typical struggles, as their outsourced executive function coach and substitute executive function, you haven't done your part. It's not shame on your child anymore ;)

I'll give you a gimme and if it helps, then you can follow up by engaging the services of an ADHD coach -- For those who forget to take their medication, put the medication AND WATER next to the bed. Set two alarms. The first one they wake up and take their meds without having to move anything more than their arm. Then they can go back to sleep. The second alarm, a half hour later (because most ADHD meds reach efficacy a half hour after consumption), is their real get up for the day alarm. They should be able to get up more easily due to the efficacy of the medication. It will take 102 practice days, so for 102 days, you need to get up with the first alarm and supervise that the medication has been taken. After that, the routine will be well worn in so that it can be relied on.

Or, if that's too much effort on your part -- Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant. Nonstimulants build up in the system and can tolerate several skipped days while still offering benefits. Stimulants cannot seeing as how they lose efficacy within 24 hours.

My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive.

Okay, I am REALLY not seeing all this education about ADHD you claim you have.

Of [curse redacted] course they have always been troubled and "highly sensitive" (aka ADHD). It is a LIFELONG CONDITION. In order to be life long it has to be there from their first breath to their dying day. In fact, as a diagnostic criteria for this label it has to be life long, not caused by some later-occurring trauma.

You act as if this is an excuse. No, dude, you are just telling us that your child has ADHD over and over and over and over and over again in ways that I can tell that YOU don't know you are. This is like ADHD 101. Where the [curse redacted] did you get your education? Almost watching two whole YouTube videos done by clickbait artists bullshirting? (this last bit meant to provide levity; I heard the whole "you didn't research, you almost watched two whole YouTube videos" somewhere and thought it was funny) I suspect that you have sought information, but that you've been ill served by resources you took to be credible that were instead abelist bias-pushing. If Dr. Gabor Mate was at all in your research folder, then just know you've absolutely found your way to the wrong information. You are looking for Dr. Ned Hallowell and Dr. Russell Barkley.

You are and continue to be completely unskilled in parenting ADHD. Please own this. Once you do, then you will be open to positive changes. Else, you'll lose your child. Parenting a child of a neurotype you do not possess is all in the logic brain and cannot come from the intuition brain.

Edited because I read other comments of yours -- You seem to have had incredibly poor luck in the ways you reached out for help. Not all therapists, in fact I'd be wiling to say it is a minority of therapists and they are specialists, are able to assist a neurodivergent household. Neurotypical therapy DOES NOT WORK for a neurodivergent home; in fact it harms more than it helps. Your local CHADD or ADDA chapter will be able to point you to therapeutic professionals with neurodivergent qualifications who can provide actionable guidance to make things better. This level of therapeutic professional you need is a very niche specialist who only deals in neurodivergence. So one of the hallmarks of someone who isn't able to help is someone whose PsychologyToday profile offers therapy for more than just neurodivergent families/households/individuals.

it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths

Okay, but that's just typical child-with-ADHD. Show me a child with ADHD and I'll show you a liar who fabricates events and denies truths.

Would you like to know why? Read on!

Because the child with ADHD has been held to standards that are absolutely completely out of whack with who they are biologically (yes ADHD is a biology condition which is why medication is effective). But being children, they aren't able to articulate. So they lie because it 'makes the problem go away'. What problem?

The parent asking them if they've done their homework. They say yes instead of -- No, I haven't done my homework yet because despite wanting to, I cannot get my body to cooperate with my desires. I absolutely intend to have it done by the time it is due, I'm a good child who enjoys homework and wants to meet those expectations. I'll do it as soon as my body starts following my brain's directions and sits down/picks up a pencil. If I tell you I haven't done it yet, you'll ask me, "Why?" and I just cannot explain to you because though TheInfamousJ is able to type all this out, that's because she's 22 years my senior so has learned a lot of metacognition I don't have seeing as how my brain isn't even finished developing yet. I don't have the words. So yes, Dad [or whatever parent you are], I've done my homework because by tomorrow afternoon this statement will be true anyway and it saves me from having to deal with your ish about me, my brain, and how completely unacceptable it and I am to you. ...... except that time where my body starts following my brain's directions? It never came before the homework was due. I need help. But you are punishing me rather than assisting me.

and so it goes

My thoughts are that puberty is a hard time. And a sleepy time. And a time that basically the brain is taken over by a chemical soup not far divorced from pregnancy-brain or postpartum-brain. If pubescent children were on the whole tidy, there wouldn't be tropes about horrifically tossed teenager rooms, so not cleaning up after themselves seems developmentally apt.

If the child doesn't meet your standards for cohabiting or vacationing, don't take them. Your own child can relate to their friend in a different scenario.

Sleeping in a closet isn't typical behavior, no, but it is also harmless. Perhaps the closet was a dark or quiet space which they needed in order to sleep and while they, too, think closet sleeping is weird, the alternative was no sleep at all because too bright or loud. It is tempting to fill in an unknown with a narrative, but your narrative is no more valid than my counterproposed narrative in this paragraph.

I wouldn't tell her parent anything unless asked directly. I wouldn't assume that the parent lacks the ability to see the same things you've seen as I doubt the behavior you saw is any different except in the better direction than how she behaves at home.

The only thing I can offer you is that motivation isn't the currency of the ADHD brain. Importance isn't the currency of the ADHD brain. The only currency of the ADHD brain is INTEREST. As in, "Oh, this is interesting to me."

It sounds as if school isn't capturing their interests. Can changes be made so that school is interesting? Harder classes? Different electives? Anything?

And trust me, you don't want unmanaged ADHD behind the wheel of a car. There's a reason we of the ADHD brain have a shorter life expectancy on average, and that's because the deaths that bring down the average are almost all vehicularly related. I'd back off that expectation until the ADHD is under control.

Is there a psychiatrist in play? Medication ought to be lowering the activation energy/removing or easing the barrier-to-action between your child and the things they are interested in and actually want to do, and it sounds as if that isn't happening.

As a parent with ADHD and a parenting coach with lots of experience parenting ADHD children (though none my bio kids; my own bio kid is too young for their ADHD to be any of the known struggles) -- You have to back down, not ride harder. Sure, one of the ways to overcome the barrier-to-action is unholy terror which puts in place fight-or-flight and can get one over the barrier BUT existing in that state endlessly is super duper bad and leads to serious hard burnout and trauma from constantly being The Problem. I know that riding them has been effective thus far, but under the hood, the way it has been effective has done long term harms. As a family, you all need to learn new management and coping skills. You need to stop overfunctioning. Family therapy (which is different in nature than couples therapy or individual therapy) is the direction to go here. ADHD isn't a person's problem, it's a family problem. Especially when it involves a child who need parents to teach and guide them in to how to exist as prosocially as possible with the brain they never asked for but nonetheless were given. You aren't teaching them how to exist with their brain, you are teaching them how to exist with your brain; they don't have your brain. ADHD isn't a malfunctioning neurotypical brain any more than neurotypicality is a malfunctioning ADHD brain. Both are okay and both are different. Think horses and zebras - both okay, both different, both rideable, both with manes and tails, both with hooves, both about the same size, but a zebra is not a malfunctioning horse nor a horse a malfunctioning zebra. A horse cannot teach the zebra how to horse, it would be bad for the zebra.

My own Mother called my ADHD Father some names (deadbeat is the one you chose to call) and when I realized I related to my Father due to same neurotype, I realized two things: (a) my mother would call me a deadbeat too simply because she doesn't know how to coexist with a neurodivergent person and so her response is disgust and shaming and (b) living in the house with her was going to be supremely traumatic to me because she's going to take out her discomfort and ignorance on me in the worst ways. I got out of the house. Your child has not.

Might I suggest that your education come from ADDitude Magazine's webinar series? It is free as a podcast. And I would like to extend an invitation to you to join the How to ADHD Discord as there is a whole parenting section for advice on parenting ADHD children as well as another section called "Hearts asking Brains". You, not having ADHD, would be a heart. And the adult ADHD brains can offer insights you might not otherwise have been exposed to.

If you feel comfortable with a book in English, check out the book "Why Will No One Play With Me". It sounds as if there may be some neurodivergence going on and from only what you have mentioned here, this limited information fits almost exactly the pattern for ADHD. But there's obviously more information you aren't disclosing.

ADHD is highly heritable which makes sense that like parent like child.

Child psychiatrist is who you take her to for a diagnosis. Once you know where to look for strategies, which is what that diagnosis tells you, then you can start supporting her in all the best ways she'd benefit from.

Thanks for being a concerned parent.

Having to do the work to learn healthy techniques to healthily regulate one's own emotions so that one can coregulate small humans who are just learning how to do the alive thing and then actually putting into place what one has learned is a challenge vs not doing any of this? You don't say. /s

These preliminary findings, which will be submitted soon for publication, should be interpreted with caution since the diversity of our sample was limited.

The authors polled 100ish parents across the country; just 100ish parents. Are any of you all family studies scholars? Is this really something which would be published with this kind of study design simply due to the inclusion of the "should be interpreted with caution" caveat? Like, in a reputable peer-reviewed journal, published? My background has me completely flabbergasted that something of this nature would come to be and I need reassurance that it is okay in its field.

a 36-year-old mother of two children under 5 reflected that she often feels like she “has nothing to give” and gets “easily overstimulated and overwhelmed all day every day.” She ended her reflections with the simple confession: “I often feel out of control.”

Oh lovely woman, you've skipped a few grades in Gentle Parenting. The first steps are to learn effective and healthy techniques to regulate one's own emotions. You, my darling lovely woman with two under five, have not. You are burned out, overstimulated, and overwhelmed because you haven't. One cannot pour from an empty teacup and no teacher was ever deemed effective who taught from the textbook without having a deep understanding of the material.

I fear that situations like the above will lead to mass impressions on the youth that respectful, emotionally intelligent parenting is useless simply because children are not unaware of burned out, tapped out, stressed out, touched out, and overstimulated parents. They are more attuned than we know.

It took me twenty years, a lot of therapy, several post graduate degrees, and twenty one children raised from bottles to backpacks as the AIC (adult in charge) during weekday daytime hours as a nanny to dial in my ability to healthily regulate my own emotions and sensory needs without disadvantaging any children who came into my area of effect. Save the Duggars, I don't think any actual parents (note, gentle reader, I am also an actual parent of a darling son) will have the opportunity to go through 20+ children as part of their learning curve. I think that Gentle Parenting is a fabulous and delightful ideal to aim for, but perhaps more realistic is Good Enough Parenting where you sometimes let them be angry without having to tell them that they are angry (footnote), while you go sip your tea in another room while it is still hot.

(footnote) Telling someone the name of their emotion in the moment without, you know, helping them with what to do with it, is unhelpful but it makes for great Instagram reels. Imagine yourself, very, very, very, very thirsty and unable to get a drink. Along comes someone who can provide you with a drink. Instead, they turn to you and say, "You are thirsty." And then they sit with you in your thirst. Rather than, you know, getting you a drink or anything. You'd gain a vocabulary word, but no skills. Same here with naming emotions. Magda Gerber was on the right track but she didn't get to the station, if you follow my analogy. And "Good Inside" can be summarized on a fortune cookie as: "They aren't giving you a hard time, they are having a hard time. Your experience is accidental." This, too, isn't the station.