anaVal

for an anarchist perspective on this topic: https://crimethinc.com/books/no-wall-they-can-build.

That's no different than saying everyone in the USSR was a Marxist, or that everyone in the US is a liberal.

Those are states. Top-down civilisations that overwrite peoples wishes. They don't need everyone to follow their framework to enforce it, that's what the police is for. Anarchy isn't like that. You cannot force a person to be anarchist. Any anarchist society that exist must by necessity be populated by people that don't follow the statist framework. Who don't follow authority. Who are Anarchist.

The example you gave is perfect. Normal people who did not understand anarchism were too heavy handed with their judgement and thus actual anarchists needed to be found to help manage that society. People who haven't stop their dependence to authority are a problem to an anarchist society, they don't conform to our framework, our culture, our decision making process and our way of life.

Anarchism isn't just a label you put on yourself. It's a culture you pick up. It is a way to look at situations and people around you. Decide things both internally externally. It's a way of life. A way of life that opposes authority.

Anarchism is a way of looking at the world. And I cannot see an anarchist society function without most of the people most of the time acting and living anarcicly. Essentially when I say anarchist I mean someone living in a culture of anarchy. And that culture needs to exist for anarchic social structures to exist.

Weird that yours is the only comment willing to take the deal, justifying it with the same point as I.

Obviously this would be something decided by a collective meeting. I like to imagine that this post is that.

voted in literally because of the "weakness"

For that to happen there needs to either be majority in the state that think that way or a powerful enough propaganda machine to sway the general public. Not all states have that. If you are dealing with a country that has a well-educated population tactics like that simply won't work. This also outlines why it's vital for every anarchist movement to involve themselves with the general population as much as possible. So large portions of the population will think "oh those are the people that organise that game-night/open kitchen/workshop thing". At this point it becomes a lot more difficult to paint them as violent terrorists because people know them and have had direct interactions with them. It also becomes a lot more difficult to walk back your deal without spreading discontent.

that has normalised said society being run from the bottom up

Everyone in that society is by my definition anarchist. When you give up your dependency on authority you become an anarchist. I'm not using the term as they would I am using it as I would. So to specify: Do you think that every single person would be willing to give up their dependence to authority? Because if they won't they will form a state, when they do you need to coexist with that state.

That, too, is immaterial because the capitalist status quo will see and treat your revolt no differently. If they can isolate you, they can destroy you.

1. Reason I brought that up was to explain why I'm ok with political reservations and not native ones.
2. In this scenario you already are isolated. If the city they are giving you is no different from the land you already occupy and is just smaller then you aren't giving away any advantage. If there is some advantage in the area (Sea access, Narrow passing) I would try and argue that they give that instead.

I find it interesting that with just the description of "A state" you have immediately imagined a worst possible enemy for yourself.

they have no intention of peacefully co-existing with you. They want to destroy you utterly

Against a state like that I'm inclined to agree with you. If they truly have no intention of coexisting then obviously the deal would be a trap. However I would immediately ask how, in such hostile environment, did you manage to get a revolt started in the first place. My original scenario imagined a lot more liberal state that would not have enough power to stop the movement before it grew to open revolt, however with the monster you've imagined I don't think it's possible.

You pose an existential threat to their precious status quo

Do we? Is every person in the world capable of being an anarchist? What would you do with the people who don't want to be? To say we pose an existential threat to states is to say that no person would voluntarily choose to live in the state if they have the option. I don't know if that's the case but I do think that states think that some people will always be loyal to them.

Why don't you ask all the colonised people of the world that?

There is a crucial difference here they owned the land before. Our revolt is carving it out. Obviously being forced to a reservation by a colonial power is wrong. But I don't see this like that. It's closer to a revolt down-sizing in order to maintain cohesion.

I imagine the state as more a liberal representative democracy. Some place that has freedom of speech and relatively fair elections. The kind of country that actually needs public support to enact their rule. Not an authoritarian hell-scape, I wouldn't trust any deal they make anyway.

I wouldn't be fighting someone capable of honesty

What if the fighting started accidentality? What if the state that is actually a pretty decent liberal democracy where there is a large amount of political freedom. Would you still be part of the revolt? and would you take the deal if, at least for the time being, the current government is sympathetic to your cause?

As for guarantees, what could they offer that would be enough? Lets say the deal gives you the city and surrounding area, opens up trade between you, and allows for free movement of people. There would be a guarded border on the state side but no troops or cops would be allowed inside. Or maybe a DMZ?

Also fooling them with a silly counter-offer is a really good idea, but a part of me thinks that it's kinda cruel to ridicule their genuine offer.

So you would rather keep fighting a hopeless war? Slowly losing people until they break through your lines? Alienating those in the state by allowing the state to paint you as warmongers? Instead of accepting a refuge and using what you have to keep fighting?

And is being a reservation really a problem? Why must it lead to collapse? You can start leeching all of the radicals from the state. Slowly building up a collective industry, maybe have some of those collectives/syndicates operate inside the state. If they pay tax why should the state mind.

I think there could exist potential in a dual-system. Obviously I don't like it, and would fight against it, but if it could be a path forward to practically achieve our goals should we not at least try to examine it?

I expanded on the scenario in the other comment in this thread. But what If you wouldn’t have a choice? If it's between fighting to the last person or taking the deal?

I would rather compromise and trust that the spirit that started this is strong enough to withstand any future attacks. With this time you have the opportunity to build up your defences, reach out to the people in the state and build networks that will keep you safe in case they attack again.

I think they can be trusted to act in their best self-interest and this deal is that.

It allows them to:

1. Stop the trickle of casualties.
2. Gain back most of the lost territory.
3. Regroup to potentially take the city back later. (Of course they would stand no chance but obviously they would think differently)
4. Win public support.
5. Have a sink for the more radical people in the populous. (Wanna live in anarchy? Go over there!)

Ok, let's expand upon this.

The fighting has been going on for a while now. thousands of people have been killed, every day new causalities are ticking up on both sides due to small raids, but there is no end in sight. Nighter side has enough resources to push forward but, if you decline the deal the people of the state will start considering you unreasonable, push up support for the war and allow for more extreme actions to be taken against you.

No one from the outside is coming to help and due to the fighting the people who support you cannot get to you. This is presented as your only way out, it's either this or fighting to the last man.

The deal would stop the hostilities between you and allow for others sympathetic to your cause to join. There might even be a chance to negotiate for more territory down the line.

Because people are lonely and the internet is telling men it's the women’s fault.