“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” —Margaret Atwood
I think the guy you’re responding to is well down the path of believing that it’s “unsafe” to be laughed at.
Reyali
joined 2 years ago
Isn’t this more of a lemmypeepost?
We have a black cat. After a trip we left a black bag on the floor for a bit. She would get on the bag and if you walked by her without acknowledging her, she’d bop you on the foot.
If you acknowledged her, no bop. I could look right at her but if I didn’t say her name, I’d be bopped.
We left that bag on the floor for several more weeks to continue the game 😅
Unless fines become a % of a person’s wealth. Make everyone feel it equally.
That’s hard to deal with. You are clearly an empathetic person with deep concern and care for this friend.
When dealing with grief, the best practice is to not seek solace/comfort from someone on a more inner circle of the grief (with the circles being like immediate family > close friends > extended family, and so on). Like it would be generally seen as inappropriate if a man’s wife died and her coworker went to him to process their grief.
Your friend’s ‘joke’ about murder summarizes simply how a lot of victims feel like rape is a loss of self, of personhood, in a way that parallels the loss of that in death—except the victim has to live through it and process it. So getting back to the grief circles, with rape those same circles may exist except with the survivor at the center. And it seems like you needed your own space to process the grief but you were trying to respect the circles and so you didn’t have support in that.
I’m just rambling thoughts that all mirror what you’ve said—I think I’m just trying to acknowledge what you experienced in my own words.
I hope you and your friend are more at peace now or at least on your way to it <3
No, you’re not a bad person for this reason, not at all.
Are there challenges or downsides? Yep. Are you prepared to face them? Sounds like it!
My dad was 44 when I was born; my mum 41. So while that’s not quite as old as you are, I still want to share some of my perspective.
The bad: I’m in my 30s and it’s hard watching them age. I find myself frequently connecting with coworkers 10 years my senior as we bond over the realities of caring for aging parents. I also lost all my grandparents mentally by my mid-20s and physically when I was 30. Given my dad’s current health, my nephew (as I won’t have children myself) will never know what my dad was like with all his faculties and may not really remember him much at all depending on how much longer my dad is able to stick around. (P.S., please make good choices about your health. As a parent these choices don’t only affect you.)
The neutral: My partner is 11.5 years older than I am, yet my parents are older than his (barely, but technically true). Did they have less energy to play with me as a kid? Maybe? I can’t say and honestly it never felt like something they lacked.
The good: And yet I also have parents I know wanted me and were mentally prepared to have me. I have always credited their age and maturity when I was born to a lot of my own maturity, including why I so easily get along with people of any age. I have said hundreds of times throughout my life that I’m grateful my parents waited until they were ready to have me, and I stand by it. They have been amazing parents and even if I have fewer years with them given the timing, I will cherish it all because they were much better than average at raising me.
The one concern you didn’t mention is that higher paternal age is associated with an increased risk of a number of negative outcomes, including things such as premature birth, chromosomal abnormalities, and autism. You didn’t name this as a concern but I think it’s worth being aware of, but I don’t think this should change your mind given how much you want a child. If you were on the edge or weren’t certain if you could care for a kid who has a slightly higher than average risk of having special needs, then I think this is worth factoring into your decision.
Hopefully none of this has scared you off because you’re already showing the maturity, consideration, and love needed to be an amazing dad. Good luck, and congratulations!
I appreciate your thoughtful response and consideration of how you phrased this originally. I know you are making the point with the best of intentions in trying to ensure that the word “rape” isn’t diluted down.
I struggled for many years to move beyond my experiences of being raped. I’m in a good place now, but it took time. I generally wouldn’t say I’m suffering from it any more (even if there may be moments where I’m triggered), so I think the comment here just hit me hard.
I also know there are other victims who have gone through weird levels of guilt and self-doubt because they haven’t felt the level of suffering that’s “expected.”
We both have the same desire here, but slightly different stances on where that line should be drawn and that’s ok.
Kind of amazing how recognizable that particular bit of concrete at the angle it’s shot from is.
I’m responding a second time because I think this is an important point to make as a top-level response.
the suffering of a living victim is an essential part of what makes rape rape.
This is a fucked up take. This says that a rape victim must suffer, and if they aren’t suffering, then it wasn’t rape. Just, no. People process things differently. Some will be more and some will be less traumatized by being raped.
Forcing a particular experience onto a victim, saying they must feel a certain way, is just so incredibly problematic. A victim can feel whatever they feel and process a crime against them however they want. And the way they do so doesn’t change whether a crime was committed against them.
Edit: And with a very literal reading of the statement, it also says that if someone kills their victim after raping them, then it’s not rape—because there isn’t a living victim who is suffering. I’m sure that’s not what you meant, but it’s important to think about these things and how we convey them.
From the details given, it’s not clear if the person was dead or only unconscious at the time of the assault and it’s not clear whether the attacker knew either.
I’m not clear on your second point; you say that it doesn’t seem right that defendant knowledge matters in one case and not the other. So if:
- Defendant commits arson not knowing they kill someone in the building > call it murder
- Defendant sexually violates a body not knowing if they are dead > don’t call it rape?
It seems like not calling it rape is what would apply a double standard here based on defendant knowledge.
Our society treats bodies as an extension of a person; for example, we do not harvest organs from a body if the person didn’t consent to be an organ donor while they were alive.
Your focus on the victim’s suffering as what determines the severity of the crime seems problematic to me. If a victim doesn’t let being raped destroy their life, do we not punish the rapist as severely? We distinguish between manslaughter and murder based on pre-meditation and intent, even though the victim is still dead in both cases, and similarly I think that focusing on the attacker’s actions and intent should be the key factor in calling their actions rape.
If the defendant were going to a morgue or funeral home and defiling bodies, I may feel differently but given the timing here it feels way too grey to not treat it as rape.
FWIW, I’m coming at this conversation as a rape survivor myself. I know the level of mental devastation it can cause. And personally, I don’t think that treating the sexual assault of someone who may or may not have been dead yet (and if they were dead, had been so for no more than 30 minutes) as rape takes anything away from the severity of the crime or my experience as a victim of it.
And anyway from a semantic perspective, according to the article it is being charged only as attempted rape.
My parents briefly hired a private chef. She used (frozen) okra in ways I never expected and it’s what made me always keep a bag on hand.
The best was oven-roasted veggies with beets and asparagus (fresh) plus okra and fire-roasted corn (frozen). Nothing else, not even seasoning, and it was one of the best things I’ve ever eaten.
She also used it in salads! I questioned it until I tried it, and then I was sold.
Wow, I’m sorry for the abuse that’s led you to the level of fear you live in. Of course it’s going to be hard for you to start any kind of connection with someone who might have a potential romantic component if you aren’t able to connect to people who don’t have that potential.
If you’re looking for broader advice, I’d recommend getting into some social groups for hobbies or business-type things. Board gaming, hiking, maker space, Toastmasters, cons; anything that gets you out of the house and meeting people.
Once in those groups, start socializing in general. Get more comfortable meeting people and establishing friendships. Realize that not everyone you meet will respond with violence and there are better people out there.
You won’t frequently get far if you aren’t in social settings where people are trying to meet other people; 95+% of the time any interaction like that is likely to be a one-off. But if you’re confident and friendly, sometimes it’s not. It is NOT predatory to still talk to people outside of those settings, but if you only talk to people you’re physically attracted to then it’s borderline weird and could be a bit predatory.
As you build the skill of talking to anyone and everyone, you’ll also develop better communication skills and more confidence (which, btw, happens to be one of the most attractive traits). And you might just find in the process of doing so that only talking to people you find physically attractive upfront isn’t the best way to meet a potential partner.
I’m genuinely sorry your family hasn’t helped you learn these skills and has actively undermined you in a way that makes it more difficult. Whether it’s a romantic interest, friendships, or your career, working on these skills will help you become a better person.