Amen, I was so freaking mad in 2016 because I was a big Bernie supporter and I remember reading an article where some college kids had been polled. The kid in question said he wasn't really fond of Hillary and was thinking of not voting for her. The interviewer asked who he liked to which he said he really preferred Bernie Sanders and was upset he didn't win the primary. The interviewer then asked if he had voted in the primary and the kid said he had forgotten to go vote.
Knightfox
joined 2 years ago
I'm not convinced that the people posting these aren't propaganda accounts anyways. The account was made in May of this year, has only 4 posts which are all about Israel, and the way they are phrasing their responses sounds like a foreigner. This could be a college kid that protested at school or it could be a 35 year old man in Istanbul for all I know.
Wouldn’t it be much better if no-one gets hanged or genocided?
Wouldn't it be much better if we lived in a world where asking "Wouldn't it be much better" magically made complicated and unrealistic things happen. You didn't even bother to write a decent response, you just jumped straight into a whataboutism.
Very very well said and your point about consistency is absolutely true. Someone posted an article a few months back in which young people were threatening not to vote for Biden because of the support for Israel and the first thing to go through my head was, "So basically no change."
You seem very aware of this, but I wanted to add some numbers in case you or someone else wanted the comparison. The highest 18-29 year old turn out was 2018 at 28% (almost like buyers remorse for not showing out in 2016). In 2014 the turn out was 14% while in 2022 it was 23%.
In 2020 there were 158 million people who turned out to vote and there are an estimated 52 million people in the age group (lets assume they are all eligible to vote). Lets say this group of unhappy progressives accounts for 10% of the turnout and instead of having 28% we instead will get 18%. The difference is 5.2 million votes (28% equals 14.5 million and 18% equals 9.3 million) which equates to about 3% of the total voters if we look at 2020's general election.
Are you actually advocating that people shouldn't have to show up to the political system to get the system to go their way? Like, this is exactly what the primaries are for. Obama wasn't the preferred party candidate in 2008, it was Hilary, but there was so much primary support from Obama that he won over her. The same could have happened in 2016 or 2020, but young voters predominantly didn't come out to vote in the primaries.
If you think you should be able to just fill out a poll and turn out in November you fundamentally don't understand how the system works.
Nope, the thread they were responding is this one (https://lemmy.one/comment/13175909) which is about the two parties (specifically whether higher turnout would benefit one party or the other). Someone else replied saying that it's about the system being broken (itself a strawman). This guy made an attack on the person, but was still focused on the two party system. Then you made a strawman as well.
What you're talking about is idealism. In a perfect world you would be correct. In a perfect world the US could have affordable and efficient mass transit within a few years. In a perfect world we could end climate change in just a few years. When your argument is based on a state of the world that doesn't exist the point of the argument is immediately useless.
This is the problem with the anti-work movement, the anti-car movement, and people who are anti-single family homes. The arguments they make are theoretically possible, but getting enough people to move in tandem to that is just never going to happen so belaboring the point over and over is just not helpful.
We live in a world where the US has 2 political parties, if one wins we get a beige moderate government, if the other wins we get Project 2025. If your idealism makes it so hard for you to determine which outcome you want then literally nothing can be done for you. If you have the idea that letting the republicans win so that then a true progressive party can exist then you need to look at history because right wing dictators historically kill the idealistic liberals and progressives right behind the Jews, POC, and homosexuals.
It's not really a strawman argument, it's closer to an ad hominem. In fact, the argument you are making is closer to a strawman.
"A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction." -Wikipedia
Saying that "if you can't tell the difference between the two parties is a you problem" is attacking the person not the issue. Saying that the difference between the two parties isn't the problem (when that's what is being argued) and instead it's the system is by definition a strawman. Using the strawman to make the discussion about the futility of voting in a flawed system just goes to show how much of a strawman it is.
I just assumed he'd flee to Russia and act like a king in exile for the rest of his life. He'd probably conveniently pop up from time to time to spew some pot stirring thing that just hurts the US.
Honestly surprised he hasn't already, I thought he would flee back in 2021.
Hey but both sides suck and it's not worth voting this year.
Your disagreement has about as much weight and value as a flat earther disagreeing that the world is round.
Which is why your disagreement doesn't matter.
Hey that's totally fair, I'm not saying she should be everyone's preferred choice, but people are going around in circles saying that they won't vote for Kamala like they don't understand the ramifications of that. We have a two party system, those parties aren't vague ideas but private corporate entities with tax benefits and assets. After Bernie lost in 2016 there was a lawsuit that alleged that the DNC had committed fraud by making certain efforts to ensure Hillary won the primary. The result of the case was that they found the proof and the DNC chair persons admitted it in court. The result was that the case was dismissed, nothing illegal was done, donating to the party or voting in the primaries makes no promise that a candidate you pick will win the primary. The judge basically said that the parties private entities that are allowed to conduct their party business the way they want.
The system that exists is built to keep it two parties and benefits those two parties.
If you're in a county or state where your vote won't matter than do what you want. My state lets you vote in either primary so I voted in the Republican Primary because we will go Republican and I at least wanted to have a say on who would be getting state positions.