I was afraid the game would end up beinmg full of Nazi brainworms. Given the whole culture around the war and the game's popularity and recognition outside Ukraine I figured even if the devs were normal there was still a good chance of them being voluntold to shove fash shit in to it.
. But either way, this feels like a revisionist retelling of what happened.
What aaaaaadjsf said reflects what happened. Apparently the quote was from an internal discussion where the context was somewhat different, but the way it was written in the admin's post was clearly misgendering and resulted in a great deal of upset and shock from the community and drove the escalation of the incident from a discussion about the dunk tank to a much wider incident about admin/moderator behavior and community trust. The statement was in a post made by @[email protected] which gave it the appearance of being made on behalf of the mod/admin staff as a whole.
Agreed. The outcome I see would be users interpreting upbears on a post based on how they use upbears. Given that different posters use them in different ways they'll almost certainly be at cross purposes with the people who did upvote.
It also makes it much easier for cliques to form as upbears go from being a general marker of engagement with a post to support from specific users. Now if two posts have 20 upvotes each all we really know is that people engaged with them. If we can see upvotes and know that each of those posts has upvotes from different sets of users we've not got factions. Instead of two posts with equal user engagement it's two speakers and their supporters. I see absolutely nothing good coming from that. It'll promote the formation of cliques and factions. It'd be much better to remove upbears entirely if they cannot be left alone as they are.
There is such a thing as too much accountability and anonymity does have a purpose. If someone wants to support an unpopular post, or raise a bad post to greater attention, or upbear a post to mark it as read that action would be subject to judgement by a public who does not know why the user chose to upbear or for what purpose. This is just awful all around. It's straight up a theory of mind problem; People trying to judge the intent of others with insufficient information, which isn't going to lead to accurate estimations of other people's goals or purpose.
A huge part of what makes Hexbear work is the very high level of engagement from users. We didn't have VC funding, we had an ethos of "ALL POSTING IS GOOD POSTING" that strongly encouraged users to set aside ideas of "good posts" vs "bad posts" and just post. A lot of people don't interact on internet forums because they're afraid of judgement, insults, or harassment. The "all posting is good posting" thing promoted just posting whatever inane shit knowing that it would get upvotes no matter what, which greatly reduced the barrier to participation. And that directly lead to the enormous posting power that made us an annoyance for reddit and led to this place having more posting power than the rest of the Lemmyverse combined.
I hadn't really thought about this in years, but all those "DAE piss and fard?!" posts are a legacy of "all posting is good posting" and encouraging members to just post something rather than restrict themselves to effort posts, or even being on topic. It keeps things moving and staves off the fatal stagnation that can set in to small insular communities over time as power posters drop off and are not replaced.
no one (not even the mods/etc) should have this as their one source of socializing/human interaction (probably).
No one should but many of us live in places where we cannot talk openly about our beliefs, and many of us have to very carefully hide our identities to avoid violence. This is an almost uniquely safe space on the internet. I'm not aware of any other spaces like it.
Lol I just did that without thinking about it.
I've been examining my own upbear behavior and... there's no consistency. It depends on my mood, what comm I'm in, what the discussion is about.
Sometimes I'm upvoting everything to mark it as read, usually in the general mega and news mega
Sometimes I'm not upvoting anything
Sometimes I'm upvoting because I support an argument
Sometimes I'm upvoting because I disagree but I think the argument is well stated.
Sometimes I'm upvoting because I just want the writer to know someone read their post
Sometimes I'm just idly, inconsistently upvoting without any thought at all, from muscle memory
Sometimes I'm upvoting everything because "all posting is good posting", a years old joke dating to the way the Subreddit strongly, strongly encouraged users to post no matter what. This was in contrast to the rest of reddit where there were very few posters compared to lurkers. This contributed to our famous and unstoppable "posting power" - A very strong community norm of posting, even if it was inane or meaningless, rather than passive viewing. That, in turn, defined the sub and later Hexbear as strongly encouraging active participation in contrast to many online communities where "low effort" posting was either formally or informally punished, and which in turn supressed many would-be speakers due to a chilling effect rising from fear of being judged or scorned for "bad posts".
I have some screenshot, shit, let me find it.
Yeah, here, found it. So, Subreddit with EIGHT POINT SIX MILLION MEMBERS Vs. Small Communist Shitposting Lemmy, who would win? Upvoting everything contributed to the culture of user engagement that lead to Hexbear out-posting the entire rest of the Lemmyverse combined by a good margin. That's a big part of why I found this incident to be so out of line. Arbitrary policing of something as contextless and ambiguous as upbears is directly against what created and sustains this place. As I've said before arbitrary moderation actions that directly run against community norms create a chilling effect and discourage user participation due to fear of running afoul of un-written rules or the whims of inconsistent moderators.
It's late and I'm running low on steam, I'll try to come back to this tomorrow.
GOOD POST
Especially about transparency not being the same as democracy and creating a "free speech zone" not being the same thing as actually taking community opinion in to account when making important changes.
No, same, I really dislike the idea of a secret clique policing arcane user actions using secret metrics. It leads to a strong chilling effect. If there are to be rules and punishments the expectations for appropriate and inappropriate behavior should be clearly stated. I'm all for arbitrary and cruel use of power, but to keep a community functional people need to know where the limits are especially when we're getting to something as arcane as upvotes where different people view them in radically different ways.
Yeah I tried to bring this up. Policing upvotes is putting the onus on users to view a post in the same manner a moderator does, which the user simply cannot do. The user and moderator are always going to have different knowledge, different perspectives, different opinions. Even if the User had perfect knowledge of the moderator all that would do is turn upvotes in to "The moderator agrees with this post" button.
And the original post about this had people with a number of different kinds of disability each discussing different reasons why policing upvotes would be burdensome for them.
On paper upvotes and downvotes are supposed to, I think, make interesting discussion topics more visible. In practice they get used all kinds of ways.
Hell yeah! First team first team!
This sounds like an excellent homage to the original, which IIRC was a buggy dumpster fire for quite a bit after release.