Arkouda

What is sea lioning?

beyond that you cannot prove any interaction of religious entity.

My statement does not argue for a religious entity existing. I do not believe in a "God" because all evidence we have suggests there isn't one.

My point is that all the evidence we have suggests that humans, including pre-civilization humans, had distinct spiritual practices including burial. Without evidence suggesting otherwise, I think it is safe to assume that spirituality was a required catalyst in order for a unified moral code to exist and human group populations to grow.

Some came from religious teaching, but mostly I got my moral code from my peers and personal experience. I very much start with treating others as I’d be happy/like to be treated. If you follow that principal to start with then most other morals fall into place.

My point is your peers, the books you have read, your parents, grand parents, etc have all been influenced in some way by Religious moral codes. One does not require it in modern times, but there was a point where it was necessary to define "morality" and unify the population under an exact moral code, and spirituality and Religion were necessary to spread and encode that morality in the greater population.

This is why all Evidence we have suggests humans have always been inclined to be spiritual or Religious through out history.

Not sure what you’re getting at about how far back you have to go but perhaps I can head off that discussion by saying that most morals can exist in the absence of religion and spirituality.

Morals can now exist in the absence of Religion and spirituality, my point is that wasn't always the case, and all evidence we have suggests spiritual practices are a driving factor in our ability to form larger groups because all the information we have suggests spiritual belief in those populations.

Religion or spirituality of some form or another has existed for as long as we have any detailed information on any societies. The main problem with this discussion is that spiritual, religious and plain moral beliefs long predate any written language system so we can’t refer to any solid evidence.

The verbal histories we have intact also demonstrate longstanding spiritual beliefs. If all evidence suggests that some form of spirituality was required for our species to agree on "morality" and form larger groups than I see no point arguing about things we don't have evidence for.

If you start with “I don’t like that” as a simplistic moral, then that predates any language as well and therefore spirtuality or religion.

"Like" is subjective, and if I cannot communicate with you whether or not I like something we have no way of moving forward. When we can communicate, and we disagree, then what?

Morality is subjective at the end of the day. Not everyone believes the same things are wrong that you do. If this is the case now, imagine what "debate" was like before communication and what would be required to instill consistency in the morality of the population.

Thank you for the reading material.

Much of it already informs my idea, and supports it.

Assuming that we evolved to what we are now at one point we would need to exhibit "Pre-moral behaviors" like the other animals, including our closest relatives, before developing "morality". This means that we need something to bring that from "behavior" to "believes to be morally right".

Spirituality is documented in our species as far back as we can go with recorded history, and the pictures remaining from the earliest humans as far as I know. This implies to me that it was required for a widespread and unified "moral code" needed in order to bring more than a few dozens humans together at a time.

The need for a consistent moral code that is enforceable through fear of God instead of fear of force.

I am not saying that you require either in modern times. I am saying that without both Spirituality and Religion in our civilizations history we wouldn't have the moral codes that exist within our species.

Where did you learn your moral code from and how far back in your history do I have to go to find a religious believer?

Do you have an example of a documented civilization that did not have some form of Religious or spiritual belief structure that guided their moral codes?