Political Memes

Patriotism is just a nice word people invented to be proud of their genocidal and colonialist country without feeling too bad about it.

If your whole identity is based on the fact you where born at some location on this planet, you really need some self reflection and deprogramming

Strange semi related old person story -- back in highschool, one of our teachers had the class write essays on whether nationalism was good or bad. We were then given an option to either present our papers, or do a debate exercise with a kind of round robin pro or con. So you'd partner with 1 other person, debate if it was good or bad, then groups of 4 doing the same, until it was the whole class. In my paper and in my discussions, I had used a similar approach as this comic -- basically just establishing what nationalism was vs patriotism, and drawing nazi's in as an example too. No one in those discussions contested that Nazi's were nationalists -- but they still argued in favour of it.

By the end, I was the only person who thought nationalism was overall 'bad'. The tide had turned in the groups of 8 stage. Because a hot girl had declared her support for nationalism. That's all it took for people to like/excuse nazis, even back in the early 2000s. An excuse.

fuck either of them.

no loyalty to any state.

um, no... Americocentric again

Nationalism has to do with pride in a shared cultural identity, whereas Patriotism is pride for one's country.

in other countries, there are strong cultural ties that bond people together. shared language. a relationship to the land. hundreds if not thousands of years of history. some countries have dozens of such groups.

nationalism is a person from that group taking pride in that identity. patriotism is taking pride in your country as a whole. so for example, you can be proud to be Gujarati, and you can be proud to be Indian.

now, in the United States, there really isn't a national identity beyond shopping malls and jingoism. so i can see how nationalism is rarely seen positively. all you get of it is nazis and fake irish frat bros.

but, no, really I think patriotism is a far bigger problem than nationalism. one's language is your flesh and blood, it's who you are. what the fuck does a country mean to you? the people who lock you up?

The only good fascist is a dead fascist

Patriotism isn't a good thing at all.

This is bullshit.

Even if the technical definition of "patriotism" is all of these good things, it doesn't matter because everyone thinks it means all of those bad things.

And the brainwashing goes on and on..

Office meme, they're the same picture. The world no longer needs people who are willing to die for, or equally kill for, their country

“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.”

—Mark Twain

Existed just 4 years

Lost a war againt the USA

Prouldy waved 150 years later

Both are tribalism of different levels of intensity. Our brains are predisposed for us-them mentality, some stronger than others, some can leave it behind others never will. It's also the most exploitable feeling in the history of our species, with fear may be the close contender.

Obviously a government embracing tribalism leads to horrid shit (everyone without an armband knows it) BUT ignoring it completely allows something else snake its way into that void. If you're lucky its something vegetarian like football hooliganism, if you-re not -- pan-nationalism, religious zealotry, whatever the 4chan incel shit is, people who can't or won't leave tribal mentality will find a dirt to roll in.

IMHO it is worth considering implementing a civic religion a-la french republicanism. Yes it can be a gateway to nationalism, but it also lets tribal minded people wave their flags and "guard the civic values" or whatever while the rest of us continue our lives in peace. As a bonus it improves civic participation and if you're attacked -- well there's already something for you to rally around.

Both are stupid, especially if you live in the USA, where your government will let you be rendered homeless and dead in the street if you can't pay enough money into the capitalist machine.

What's to be proud of?

Both are shit. It seems like american culture in general is just lesser-evilism.

Nobody should be patriotic with the genocidal settler colony that is the USA.

Every "nationalist" believes themselves a "patriot".

All this image does is allow you to self-soothe that you're "one of the good ones".

Nah, fuck that. Patriotism is just nationalism light.

Nationalism is only good when people are fighting colonialism, e.g. palestine or british era India.

Patriotism is the little sibling of nationalism, and the boundaries are fluid. I will never understand why people are proud of other people's accomplishments and make them their own. Or is it because people were shat on somewhere else in the world than everyone else? Makes absolutely no sense.

A long time ago I read some post that stuck with me.

It said that some people love their country the way a child loves their parent. They're perfect and smart and strong and can beat up your parent. They don't have any flaws, and can do no wrong. They're the best ever.

Other people love their country the way an adult loves a peer. They see the potential, the good, but also the flaws. They want what's best for both of them, even if it's uncomfortable and difficult. And ultimately, if the relationship becomes abusive, they won't just take it.

Conservatives often are the first one, but I think they are generally more immature. Fearful, tribal, angry.

Loving your country in the second way can be okay, I think. It can be a vehicle for improvement. People have wanted to improve their living spaces and communities for longer than we've had recorded history. It doesn't have to be toxic or zero-sum.

fuck nationalism patriotism all that shit.

Simp for community, not a heirarchical country you were taught to fall in love with.