this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2025
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chapotraphouse

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Hi, I'm here to announce that everyone pushing the standard Hexbear party line on the protest movement is a loser and wrong. I already know the weak-ass arguments you're gonna make and every single one of them reveals your disconnection from any actual organizing. Let's go through them one by one. If you have another that you think Marx Failed to Consider, please bring it up and I will explain how you are wrong in that way as well.

This was funded by the Waltons

No, one Walton bought an ad in the NYT. Who fucking cares? It has no material bearing on the movement whatsoever. There's no organization money is being funneled to other than the Democratic Party and Indivisble, which is not different in any way. The on-the-ground organizers in most cities and towns are not receiving a penny from the left's George Soros conspiracy. They're just normal people (and, to the next point, lots of leftists).

The Democrats are using this to steal the leftist energy of the masses

The Democrats certainly want to do that, but on the ground reports indicate they are losing all over the country. That's because leftists (especially PSL) are not leaving this space uncontested. I have spent an enormous amount of time putting in the work to earn the trust and legitimacy necessary to place a bunch of literal revolutionary communists in the leadership of the local movement. Not in some sneaky, behind the scenes way, but out in the open, succeeding specifically because we are literal revolutionary communists who never shut up about it. The Democrats, by my accounting, are losing the struggle in more places than not. If you refuse to engage because you're afraid the Dems will suck your leftist soul, you're just conceding the struggle and granting them victory. They don't co-opt by pressing a button, they co-opt because they have the resources to take leadership and then defuse. So far they have failed to do so specifically because the space is not empty and the communists are fighting harder to reach the masses (since we actually have an appealing program).

The attendees are all Kamala-loving liberals who just want to go back to brunch

If you had ever bothered to go to one of these events and talk politics to people, you'll discover a very broad array of political perspectives, including a strong trend towards explicit support for socialism. Yes, of course, the PMC bug-eating libs are there - who cares? They are by no means the only attendees. Maybe you're just Too Cool to be around someone who reminds you of your mom, but the rest of us are finding deep political discontent and activating it. When one of my comrades gets on the mic and says "we need to break from the democrats and do a literal socialist revolution", the crowd response, by and large, is incredibly positive. The retired dentists and accountants in the crowd grumble and whine, but they are a minority - and they don't leave. They stay and listen to the arguments we make. They say things like "you're right, I just don't think it's possible". They very, very rarely say "you're going too far".

This is a disorganized mess that's going to fizzle out

50501 and other decentralized spontaneous protest movements never last, but they do give an opportunity for dedicated political organizers to intervene on a stage where thousands of disaffected liberals and Democrat voters are asking "what is to be done?". If you decide not to show up and answer that question, the Democrat machine will coordinate the demobilization of this movement. If you do show up and you deliver the political argument you believe in. If you show up with the AV equipment, safety marshalls, march route, signs, and speaker list - the bare minimum for a halfway serious organizer - then you don't just hand out flyers and talk at a table but set the entire political line of the event. And in doing so, you demonstrate the leadership of the socialist movement and win a lot of those attendees to your side. If you can plug them into actual organizing work, you can bring them into permanent political motion. Does it matter if 95% of these people just go home and never bother to do anything besides another protest? If those 5% join the movement in a meaningful way, that's half a million new comrades.

Mao says: "All work done for the masses must start from their needs and not from the desire of any individual, however well-intentioned. It often happens that objectively the masses need a certain change, but subjectively they are not yet conscious of the need, not yet willing or determined to make the change. In such cases, we should wait patiently. We should not make the change until, through our work, most of the masses have become conscious of the need and are willing and determined to carry it out. Otherwise we shall isolate ourselves from the masses. Unless they are conscious and willing, any kind of work that requires their participation will turn out to be a mere formality and will fail."

Stop thinking about what you want to do and achieve and start thinking about the fact that we needs tens of millions of people to support revolutionary socialism in the US in order to get anything done. They are out in the streets begging for you to explain this to them.

These are just peaceful protests that won't achieve anything because they aren't revolutionary.

Lenin says: "What grounds are there for assuming that the “great, victorious, world” revolution can and must employ only revolutionary methods? There are none at all. The assumption is a pure fallacy; this can be proved by purely theoretical propositions if we stick to Marxism. The experience of our revolution also shows that it is a fallacy. From the theoretical point of view—foolish things are done in time of revolution just as at any other time, said Engels, and he was right. We must try to do as few foolish things as possible, and rectify those that are done as quickly as possible, and we must, as soberly as we can, estimate which problems can be solved by revolutionary methods at any given time and which cannot."

You're doing the ultra-leftism of conflating tactics with strategy. Our tactic in this moment is to intervene in these protests to convince people of the necessity of a revolutionary socialist political organization as the only solution to our sick society. Right now, mass revolutionary socialist consciousness and organization does not exist in the USA. Therefore, it is impossible to carry out open revolutionary militancy. If the current crop of people who are in some way directly involved in revolutionary socialist organizing (certainly a lower bar than revolutionary guerrilla warfare or sabotage) turned today to armed struggle, all ~100,000 of them would lose. The broader periphery of people who semi-passively support that objective through attendance at events and monetary contribution is probably a few million. The masses who would passively support probably number in the tens of millions, but that passive support is not particularly useful. And the number of people who would simply sit by and watch it happen is probably over 100 million. Every one of those groups needs to be elevated to the next stage - observer to passive supporter, passive supporter to semi-passive periphery, semi-passive periphery to revolutionary organizer, revolutionary organizer to doing the literal revolution. Each of these layers of the movement have a symbiotic relationship with the others that strengthen the entire struggle.

Here's the key lesson: WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO WIN VIOLENT STRUGGLE AND YOU NEED TO GO WHERE THE MASSES ARE TO RALLY THEM TO OUR CAUSE.

Amerikkkans will never do a revolution because they are labor aristokkkrauts

Ok, thank you for you contribution, you can resume sitting in a hole since your prescription is inactivity.

Please tell me your other weak-ass reasons why you're correct to sit on your ass.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

i will always say this here: good socialists will be salivating at the opportunity these protests present.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 34 minutes ago

chad-trotsky just stole a brand new printer

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 hour ago

What the 2017 lib protests didn't have was Palestine flags and a general disdain for "billionaires" and "oligarchs". Things are moving in the right direction however slowly

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 hour ago

Thank you comrade, you have totally changed my view for the better. I was not thinking critically at all before this and just judging the protests based off imperfection

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 minutes ago (1 children)

In the preceding thread you stated that your PSL chapter ended up organizing their own parallel protests. Was that in the lead up to the No Kings protests? Can you elaborate more on that actual process?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 minutes ago

We've been working closely with 50501 for a while, making strong relationships with the organizers and taking on tasks to help them get things done. Over time, we've gradually taken on more of that load and have gotten the corresponding say over the political line at these protests. We're setting the time, place, schedule, providing all the materials and labor, etc. It is our established capacity to effectively run events like this that allowed us to take leadership simply because we are the most effective at putting in the work.

I don't want to dive too far into the details, but essentially Indivisble started to realize this was totally out of their hands and scooped the 6/14 date as soon as it was announced, before we put up our own call to action. That meant they were getting their position out there before ours using their standard co-optation platforms. We utilized our own outreach capacity and carried forward confidently to put on a protest we thought could rival theirs in number and far exceed it in political consciousness, professionalism, and organization. The protests ended up being very similar in size, and their head organizer literally ran screaming into the middle of our action, tried to interrupt a speaker with the siren mode on her megaphone, then proceeded to have a full-blown mental collapse when the crowd was hostile to her. In the end, we came out looking like the far more competent segment of organizers and got a lot of interest from exactly the type of folks we're looking to connect with: queer, black, working class, for the most part.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 49 minutes ago

I found the jump from "one member of the Walton family took out an ad supporting the protests" to "the protest was paid by Walmart" very silly

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 minutes ago* (last edited 6 minutes ago)

I handed out a ton of homeprinted newsletters at my protest no-tip

[–] [email protected] 3 points 36 minutes ago* (last edited 35 minutes ago)

Good post, I was wondering how you were gonna go about making another post dedicated to this topic when you last said it

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 hour ago

Amazing post and sorely needed. I probably needed to hear it too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 minutes ago

Reiterating my point that if the protest is within walking distance, it's alright to attend, but if you have to drive 40+ minutes and pay for parking, you're better off spending that money on Palestinian gofundmes.

If you want a more "leftist" reason, once you're spending 40+ minutes to drive to another location, that really isn't your community anymore, so everything that various people, both socialists and progressives, say about building community is not applicable for the simple reason that community is only applicable to people within walking distance (or a short <10 minute drive if we're talking about suburbia since suburbia is hostile towards pedestrians).

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

I don't know who you're replying to so the impact of this post is lost on me. If someone on Hexbear said that Walmart is paying people to show up to protests then you should have called them out in the thread where they said it. Making a new post to say that all hexbears believe that is odd. Your whole post is like "Listen up here you fucking cracker reactionaries, I'm gonna set you strait and let you know that we need to build popular support before we can have a revolution!" Like who is disagreeing? This is premium Hexbear online posting. I don't know why we're kidding ourselves thinking this is some kind of grass-touching anthem.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

If you went to the protest, did some canvassing/organizing work, and posted about it here later in the day, you'd know exactly where OP is coming from. I know because I did the same thing, but didn't have enough fury to bang out 7 paragraphs about it.

It's important to call out this ultraleft position in our community to invite our comrades to reflect and develop a different perspective.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I went into your history. You got into an argument with one poster about whether or not it was worth it to convert libs at the event. By argument I mean one reply. That's the ultraleft position in our community?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 55 minutes ago (1 children)

Yes that's the same position that OP bumped into in a previous thread as well. That is what's being addressed in this post. It sucks to put in some work and come back to our community and be presented with that feedback from those we look to as comrades. As you can see from the thread, we aren't the only two who are frustrated by this, and we have an opportunity to address it now.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 31 minutes ago (1 children)

This is going to come off really crabby, and I'm sorry for that, but you being frustrated with a couple of people is not a problem with site culture. Both you and OP are not actually communicating well or taking care of this in a productive way. The person you're frustrated with don't even know this thread is about them. You have experience with communicating to strangers and talking to people with differing views at protests. Apply that here. The opportunity was when it happened, not 4 days later.

If Hexbear has a culture problem it's poor communication and a seeping anticipation that the person you argue with is a latent fash.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 minutes ago

If Hexbear has a culture problem it's poor communication and a seeping anticipation that the person you argue with is a latent fash.

"Latent fash" give me a break.

Their position is being called "ULTRALEFT". Agree or disagree, nobody has ever implied that ultra-leftism is fascist adjacent. I would NEVER imply that about a member of our community and I'm offended at the implication that I would ever do so.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 hour ago

There has been much fucking nihilism on this site lately, this feels like a general response to that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 hour ago

I went to one and propagandized. It wasn't the most receptive audience, but made some connections.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 hour ago

Whatever gets the masses in the street is what gets the masses in the streets. We should be there to guide them to something actionable, if it exist.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

I actually support every protest because I enjoy the violence

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Idk, I'm old as shit. These sorts of milquetoast bog standard do nothing protests are a dime a dozen whenever a republican is in. Most were just standing in the grass, unobtrusive. You can talk to everyone there and it's like it all goes in one ear and out the other, and it's precisely because they're afraid to have real skin in the game. I prefer organizing with queers, they're more likely to do interesting things and stick around. And more importantly, queers always have skin in the game whether they like it or not.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 hour ago (3 children)

There are piles and piles of queers at these things, they are bursting at the seams with queers eager for political engagement. Not that your other avenues for that are invalid, but don't misrepresent the opportunity presented.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

As a fellow grass-toucher, this post goes hard. I have never in my life been to a more libbed-up protest but I was happy to be there with my comrades. I think many armchair organizers are far more worried about appearing the same as liberals when instead they should be worried about making more socialists.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

As non American thats my take as well. It doesnt matter if the protests are lib as fuck. IF you go there and get some folks interested or curious about socialism thats a win.

Afaik there is no large left movement in the USA so the main goal should be to reach as many people as possible through whatever means possible to create more socialists/communists anarchists etc

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