in which some nerd tries to call in a 4chan harassment raid
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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It's the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
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I will say there are definitely individuals in this instance that fit other people's reaction to you folks, but some of you are pretty considerate and kind. I've had some genuinely great conversations with some of you. Now banning Narcissist sounds too ridiculous to be true. I'm going to say a bunch of n- words now. Nimbly-bimbly, nice, November, gnat, newtype, never, nuclear, knife, next, Nigeria
I'm the person that said something was narcissistic, a single user raised the issue as potentially ableist and we then discussed whether it was or not. I don't see what the issue is here, this person is blowing it completely out of proportion. Having these discussions is fine and good. There is an argument that in some contexts it can be ableist, and there are other contexts where it is not. If the word were used more consistently in the negative framing I would have sided against it as well. It's quite possible that it might be at some time in the future.
I see the N word used negatively all the time. Why don't I send you some examples?
The key here being "consistent" which is why I included that word. I'm not arguing that it's not used negatively, as an insult, and that those uses aren't ableist when it happens. But that legitimate usage of the word also exists, particularly when people are performing actions that would in fact meet the medical definition if they do them frequently.
I do genuinely understand where you're coming from though and don't really dismiss the points you're making entirely. I agree with some of them and intend to be more careful about my use in future. I just wouldn't support a blanket approach to it. It's a case by case thing. I certainly don't support referring to narcissism as "the nword", not merely because it's silly but also because it comes off as an attempt to completely undermine the slur already referred to as that, if that's not your intent I strongly urge you to think about that issue.
I'm going to push back and say this argument fits any medical situation, including autism and such. If someone is doing something characteristic of people with Asperger's (who do it more often) and you call them autistic, that is using it in the negative way. I don't see many real difference here unless we are going to get into arguments of 'good and bad behavior" or (and I think this one is the difference in most peoples' minds) the legitimacy of a spectrum such as NPD. I realized that is where I was going wrong, personally
yeah this was what changed my mind as well. I think there are better ways to describe the phenomena than to medicalize or pathologize. I've also seen someone take it much too far and pathologize literally everyone (because obviously everyone exhibits some of these patterns of behavior at various points in time without it rising to the level of a problem that negatively impacts their lives).
It does but someone raised a point about anxiety in yesterday's discussion that stuck with me, pointing out that anxiety disorder is also a medical condition and yet we use feeling anxious as a descriptor of something without necessarily meeting the requirements for anxiety disorder. This is how narcissistic was used by me also, to describe an action that would be absolutely 100% narcissistic in its nature as opposed to making a statement about a person being a narcissist.
Well calling someone anxious isn't really a derogatory thing is it? It's describing an emotion that isn't seen as negative. Meanwhile, I've never seen anyone call someone self-absorbed without it being intended to critique/speak negatively about that action. It's why I specifically chose autism as my example, because there are a lot of issues of people out there using it pejoratively just as narcissism is used.
Yeah, so it's like the R word before the name was changed, or calling someone autistic or gay as an insult
It could reach that point eventually yes. I don't see it often enough to feel it is though.
Please see and consider the edit I made about calling it the "nword" though. I have very serious hangups about that.
Okay, I'm going to do that thing I mentioned about showing negative examples.
This thread is the top google result for "Do narcissists deserve to die?"
https://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-narcissists-deserve-to-die-alone
There's more of this. It turns out when you tell a bunch of people that the abuse they suffered is the doing of an evil minority, you can provoke truly profound feelings of hate. That's the same strategy Hitler used to gain power
Lmao fuck those people.
You mean equating. A comparison is an operation where you identify differences between two things. An equation identities similarities.
oh interesting. I've always used them interchangeably.
You can consider it ridiculous, but we're generally on the cautious side for this sort of stuff. A comrade explained patiently about its experience with NPD and about the personal feelings towards the word's overuse and convinced a lot of us that it's worth actively not using. Similar to "ps*cho", people are trying to say something that's easily described in other words without medicalizing others to create overlaps with people who are seeking to improve their lives through understanding themselves and building understanding with those around em.
Be respectful, I thought it was a troll for like 3 posts but I'm convinced I was the asshole for that assumption
Edited for pronouns after seeing the post below
I agree, and I think even moreso something that we do and should be proud of is this: we will try to understand the maximum argument you should be making for yourself before judging whether you are right or wrong.
I disagree heavily with the comparisons that user was making to the racist N-word, because I don't think the content of the usage is at all comparable really. One is a slur when used against someone of a race and the other is a word that shouldn't be used without specificity because it lumps people together that have nothing to do with one another. Someone with NPD might correctly be called a narcissist as a medical term (though I'd guess it's best to say "a person with NPD"). Nobody is correctly identified as the N-word (exception of self-identification for recapturing the term).
The arguments werent too strong honestly, but I think we can try to see the point anyways and imagine what would've been a better one ad compare that to our own rationale and adjust. So I pushed a bit more and read the other posts and managed to get some better understanding.
I didn't become a commie because any real-life MLs convinced me through arguments, but because I forced myself through rethinking my positions after encountering real life situation and people with bad arguments but great points.
well said. this community's embrace of self-crit is what makes me love it so much.
Thank you so much for the open mind, I'm beginning to see why Hexbear is awesome
I appreciate that we're able to have discussions like that on hexbear. Self crit is important, and there are words that are used more broadly in society, or overused as the case may be, that shouldnt be used in interesectional spaces or in the better world we're trying to create. Self crit is necessary to avoid reactionary thinking.
What about pedophilia
This isn't supposed to be a gotcha or anything, just wanted to mention it. "Pedophile" is almost exclusively used as a derogatory term, but it could and likely does apply to people who experience attraction to minors against their own will and never act on it.
gnat is technically a g-word and that is already taken by