this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2025
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Rough Roman Memes
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A place to meme about the glorious ROMAN EMPIRE (and Roman Republic, and Roman Kingdom)! Byzantines tolerated! The HRE is not.
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Explanation: Historians used to be extremely reluctant, due to lingering Victorian-era mores, to acknowledge GSMs in history. Nowadays the problem is much reduced, and historians are generally more open to acknowledging the GSM identity or possible identity of historical figures.
The Roman Emperor Elagabalus is now generally considered, if a third of the stories repeated about them by contemporary histories are true (and while Elagabalus was unpopular, the stories are remarkably specific accusations to level against someone), to have been trans or NB.
I would say they still are reluctant. Maybe less so. In modern conversatioms, there is a very subtle implication that acknowledging queerness is inappropriate unless very explicit - even then you will get comments like "they didn't have the same understanding about orientation or gender identity".
In otherwords, there is still a strong undercurrent that straightness should be the default, rather than just one of the options.
Honestly, historians are just cagey about anything that can be argued about. Typically they wan't to use language that is either verifiable or culturally specific (e.g. pederasty). One lecturer I know also emphasised that direct equivalency can be frankly problematic (e.g. lots of examples of Roman "homosexuality" is older men and younger boys). At the end of the day we can't speak to identity in most cases, and that identity will be culturally situated. We can talk about actions. Can't say if Julius Caesar was bisexual, can say he probably had sex with both men and women. Does sound like tiptoeing around to people used to saying "gay" not "men who have sex with men".
That kinda language is common among both cisgendered straight and LGBTQ+ researchers btw.