Slop.

OK BUT WHAT ABOUT SOCIAL CREDIT SCORE WINNIE THE POOH COVID??

Really tempted to start a rednote account that just does the equivalent of Radio Free Asia but on behalf of the CPC.

i love how this is like wayyy longer than the lib copypasta

You can also watch the documentary "the gate of heavenly peace" on YouTube. It kinda stirred up controversy "on both sides". That doesn't make it necessarily correct, but it at least shows you where they stand.

Commenting to have a link to this, nice job on rounding up sources

What exactly is your claim? I can perhaps infer you are trying to make the claim that no people were killed in Tiananmen Square? Maybe this is true, but it is sidestepping the fact that most of the sources you link to state that the PLA killed people in or around Tiananmen Square in response to political activity.

I am not plugged into this community, so I have no idea what the purpose of your post is, but I can dig into the linked articles and find specific quotes that confirm that the PLA killed people around the area.

Governments in general employ tactics that find pointless, incorrect, or inconsequential inconsistencies to try to poke holes in inconvenient narratives, which is what I suspect the line of quotes is about.

I will admit, I learned something today. I learned that people were not killed IN the square, but OUTSIDE the square.

Does it really matter if the government killed people in the square or outside the square? The fact is, they killed people extrajudicially, at least according to your links.

Telegraph:

The cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and released exclusively by The Daily Telegraph, partly confirm the Chinese government's account of the early hours of June 4, 1989, which has always insisted that soldiers did not massacre demonstrators inside Tiananmen Square.

Instead, the cables show that Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters outside the centre of Beijing, as they fought their way towards the square from the west of the city.

You quote

CBS NEWS: “We saw no bodies, injured people, ambulances, or medical personnel — in short, nothing to even suggest, let alone prove, that a “massacre” had occurred in [Tiananmen Square]”

From the very same article:

Some have found it uncomfortable that all this conforms with what the Chinese government has always claimed, perhaps with a bit of sophistry: that there was no "massacre in Tiananmen Square."

But there's no question many people were killed by the army that night around Tiananmen Square, and on the way to it — mostly in the western part of Beijing. Maybe, for some, comfort can be taken in the fact that the government denies that, too.

You quote:

BBC NEWS: “I was one of the foreign journalists who witnessed the events that night. There was no massacre on Tiananmen Square”

That text does not exist in the linked article. You changed it without any indication that you did it.

Here is the actual text:

Such was the case with the massacre in Beijing on 3 and 4 June, 1989. I was one of the foreign journalists who witnessed the events that night.

We got the story generally right, but on one detail I and others conveyed the wrong impression. There was no massacre on Tiananmen Square.

Your text from NY Times:

NY TIMES: In June 13, 1989, NY Times reporter Nicholas Kristof – who was in Beijing at that time – wrote, “State television has even shown film of students marching peacefully away from the [Tiananmen] square shortly after dawn as proof that they [protesters] were not slaughtered.” In that article, he also debunked an unidentified student protester who had claimed in a sensational article that Chinese soldiers with machine guns simply mowed down peaceful protesters in Tiananmen Square.

Here you are trying to emphasize the claim “[protesters] were not slaughtered”? You make no specific statement, so I can only respond with this quote from the same article.

State television has even shown film of students marching peacefully away from the square shortly after dawn as proof that they were not slaughtered. The disagreement is partly one about the definition of the square. … Troops fired on civilians in many parts of the city, but the shooting was concentrated along the Avenue of Eternal Peace, or Changan Avenue, which runs on the north side of the square. There was heavy shooting in the Muxidi district to the west of Tiananmen Square, and there were also many casualties along the Avenue of Eternal Peace to the immediate east of the square, as well as on streets to the south of the square.

This reporter saw troops fire on and kill people on the Avenue of Eternal Peace on the northern part of the square as well as some who were on a segment of the square just north of the avenue, near the Tiananmen Gate. But there is no firm indication that troops fired on the students occupying the monument in the middle of the square.

Reuters:

As to body count: I saw several people, young men, lying on flatbed tricycles being carried away from the square. They were inert and covered in blood. Dead or wounded, I have no idea. On the afternoon of June 4, I saw people fall on Changan Avenue as troops opened fire on them. I have no idea if they were wounded, killed, or simply fainting.

How many people died that night in Beijing? What was the price of the years of superficial political stability that followed?

Most of the killing did not take place on or near the Square, that is clear. The official line, first espoused by Communist Party propaganda guru Yuan Mu a couple of nights later on national television, was that 23 people had died on the night of June 3/4. It was ludicrous. Nobody who was in Beijing at that time believed it.

Wikileaks:

6. THE GALLOS POSITIONED THEMSELVES NEAR THE RED CROSS STATION AT THE FOOT OF THE STEPS TO THE MUSEUM. INITIALLY NOT MUCH WAS HAPPENING IN THE SQUARE AS MOST OF THE FIGHTING WAS TAKING PLACE TO THE WEST. BODIES AND WOUNDED, HOWEVER, BEGAN TO ARRIVE AT THE RED CROSS STATION INDICATING THE EXTENT OF THE FIGHTING AND THE FACT THAT REAL BULLETS WERE BEING USED. AS THE MILITARY BEGAN TO REACH THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE SQUARE AND SHOTS WERE FIRED IN THE VICINITY OF THE RED CROSS STATION, MRS. GALLO DECIDED SHE WANTED TO LEAVE. THE GALLOS MADE THEIR WAY BACK TO THEIR CAR AND DROVE BACK TO THEIR APARTMENT IN SANLITUN. GALLO DROPPED OFF HIS WIFE AND DROVE BACK TO THE SQUARE, AGAIN PARKING EAST OF THE MUSEUM.

I thought this article was a fun read: https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt/

On one avenue in western Beijing, demonstrators torched an entire military convoy of more than 100 trucks and armored vehicles. Aerial pictures of conflagration and columns of smoke have powerfully bolstered the [Chinese] government’s arguments that the troops were victims, not executioners. Other scenes show soldiers’ corpses and demonstrators stripping automatic rifles off unresisting soldiers,” admitted the Washington Post in a story that was favorable to anti-government opposition on June 12, 1989.

This is not flattering to the PLA, that they let 100 vehicles get torched by some random ad hoc insurrection in their own capital.

100% correct comrade. i also think it's frustrating that any time you point this out to someone "you're repeating stuff you heard on tv" they take extreme offense and say "I DON'T WATCH TV! I DON'T WATCH X Y OR Z CHANNEL YOU THINK I DO! IM AN INDEPENDENT THINKER!" and then you find out if that's even true about them not watching tv, they're getting their news from the fox news facebook page or the CNN youtube channel instead. real maveriks getting their information.

When US pigs crack down on a protest they're protecting private property, and as we all know property rights matter more than civil rights.

yeah, must have to do with too much black and white media consumption in place of actual political theory. they think someone can only be bad if they make angry faces and explicitly say "i am the bad guy. i am going to so very bad things to good people who do not deserve it, for i am bad"

my posting was too powerful. even if i change IPs and make a new account on a new windows user it gets instantly banned. not sure how reddit does that.

And yet the violence didn’t even occur in the square, it was over on Chang’an avenue iirc, involving a completely different group of people than the student protestors. So it’s more like, “there were violent clashes elsewhere in NYC but literally nothing happened at OWS.”