this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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"When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
Correct. Why would anyone go for a worse option for themselves?
Edit: A benefit to one group does not mean a detriment to others. This is not a zero sum game.
The funny thing is that the left could offer so many things for men:
All of which are mostly men issues.
Is it really worse? Or does it just hurt your feels when women can decide something on their own?
Name one thing thats gotten better for men in 50 years.
being gay is more accepted. there’s also much less pressure to conform to masculine standards. e.g., being able to talk about feelings, expressing yourself in fashion/makeup, joining in traditionally feminine careers like ~~nursing~~/teaching (both of which have exploded in the past 50 years). just to name a few
~~they also haven’t used the draft in 50 years~~
edit: striked through things are either factually incorrect (nursing) or more nuanced than my original comment implied (military draft)
Fair. A win for all.
Not the wider experience. Men are still stigmatised for expressing themselves. Example: how often do men get to be emotionally vulnerable in a public setting compared to women?
This is flat out wrong, it's actually getting worse.
https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/gender-equality-and-through-teaching-profession
Sex ratios in healthcare occupations: population based study.
That's because there are enough men who are financially destitute, who sell their lives into the military.
Don't need a draft when there is enough blood money going around.
you’re right about the teachers thing, my apologies for getting things mixed up. from what i can see, i was right about the nursing thing though. here’s a source from columbia verifying that nursing has increased 10x since 1997: https://www.nursing.columbia.edu/news/many-more-men.
my claim wasn’t that men are no longer stigmatized, i was only trying to suggest that it’s better now than it was before. there is still a long way to go.
i agree with this point is general, but i think financial destitution is something that is on the rise for both men and women. you bring up a good point that the decrease in people getting drafted isn’t the win i originally thought it was, so i’ll take that off the list.
things like this made the original question a bit tricky to answer: i can think of many ways in which things have gotten better/worse for both men and women, but i can’t really think of ways in which things have gotten better/worse for men. i can think of a lot of ways things have gotten better for women though (and some ways things have gotten worse)
The fact that I can't wear a skirt in public without facing backlash, but a woman wearing pants is seen as normal makes me feel like there is still a lot of progress we have to make. I guess it's equivalent would be women going topless casually. I really hate conservative/puritan values.
Here's 3.
Yeah, fuck men who want to wear blue and play with cars. Being a man isn't allowed. Unless you accept feminization, you're the enemy. No wonder men choose to vote for the bad guys, when the "good" side demand that they play a role as weak.
Your problem is thinking that wearing blue is masculine and baking is feminine. Neither of those things are weak either.
No, I'm not. Regardless, my point is that that list is making requirements on some men to be what they don't want to be, to not be considered the enemy of the new left. Sure, some men would love to be allowed to wear pink, but some of us would hate to have to wear it. When you present the pink-wearing, baking, doll playing man as the one you welcome on your political "side", you're telling every man who doesn't conform to that, that they're not welcome. So they join the right, despite it being full of nazis. We don't want to join the nazi side, but unlike you they don't hate us for who we are.
No
Im sorry but if the nazis dont hate you for who you are then who are you? Because they hate everyone who isn't them.
I'm a white man. The kind of people who are represented by the downward arrows. My point is that the arrows are going that way because of attitudes like those in the comment above. We used to vote for the socialist parties when it was the working class against the capital. Now it's white men who are declared the enemy by those parties, because of gender and skin, aspects which are impossible to change.
... Yeah, nobody outside of a minority of crazies are saying those things.
Why do things need to get better for men? Things have been pretty excellent for men for a very very long time.
Pretty excellent, aye? These men just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Which of those issues are in place because men are oppressed as being inferior instead of being gender expectations that feminism targets? Meaning: which are a consequence of gender expectations?
High suicide rate is connected to men more likely to have access to guns and because they are less likely to go to a doctor because of gender expectations.
Loneliness is on the rise for everyone. Some studies find more loneliness in women. The idea of "the male loneliness epidemic" is meme that just generates tons of clicks and engagement. It's not real.
For the work place it's again a problem of gender expectations. It's not because people see men as inferior.
So are the next three.
Men are actually more likely to get custody if they ask for it. You have fallen for a manosphere conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality. Women more often get custody because when both parents work, the men's job is respected, the women's isn't. They get automatically assumed to be the caregiver because of gender expectations. The only thing a man has to do is literally ask for custody. On the other hand, a single mother who is expected to do the brunt of the caregiving, can't force the father to take more time with the kids. Simply because of gender expectations.
High male suicide rates happen even without access to guns.
Show me your receipts.
You don't think it's internal drivers? That man are driven to perform internally and externally?
And how should women help with male loneliness? Do you want a comfort woman assigned to you? Noone is entitled to a relationship.
I wasn't insinuating that women should help with male loneliness. I don't think women have the answer here.
Literally nobody said anything about "comfort women", or that male loneliness even has anything to do with sexuality, for that matter.
One thing women could do to help is to stop demonizing and dismantling male-only spaces that provide men an opportunity for bonding and comradeship while hypocritically demanding more and more women-only spaces.
Ok, then stop making those 'male only' spaces places where women are employed as sex objects and men are excluding their female colleagues from networking whilst engaging in a bit of fun sexual harrassment.
Ok, then stop making blanket statements that all men's spaces are like that, when that's clearly not the case.
In fact, to answer your original question in a more complete manner: one thing women could do to help men's lives improve is to stop systemically demonizing men in general.
No, these men need to communicate better with the women in their lives. They need to find and attend regular therapy. They need to practice safety regardless of their peers attitudes. They need to stand up for others rights, so we can all accommodate the burdens of life together. This list reads like a list of things men have imposed on other men from my perspective.
There's those bootstraps I was talking about.
Ah yes, being a reasonable, empathetic member of society. "BoOtStRaPs!!1!"
I'm a depressed male, I have attended therapy, I have talked with those close to me, I have been in dark times, and I'm hella lonely. Being a fascist isn't going to fix that, if history tells us anything, that'll make it worse.
See, you’re a depressed male shitting on other men that are trying to empathize with you, solely because they’re men and acknowledging men still have problems.
You’re also just being a dick.
I'm not shitting on anyone for pointing out that men have problems. I'm pointing out that there are means to fixing these problems that don't involve picking up fascist politics.
The majority of lads are growing up without father figures, and yet we expect them to be functional males once they are adults.
If that's not bootstraps, then I don't know what is.
I never claimed that was a viable choice.
Then you of all people should know that there's not much out there that is going to help you get to the next level. Imagine a world where you never had to go through dark times, or attend therapy, because the way you were brought up prepared you for those times. And gave you the emotional tools to navigate support networks.
Imagine stability.
I guess the point I'm getting at here is that, you're preaching to the choir, but I'm still over here hoping we can solve this problem for EVERYONE. Because sure, men have issues, but women not only exist, but are humans in need of the same types of help, and in a lot of cases are facing even more adversity what with global fascism on the rise.
Edit: Also was trying to say something about being bullied for wearing safety gear at dangerous jobs (my experience), and how "gotta be a strong man, can't cry." was like, the worst feeling I ever had, and when I let go of it and cried and had feelings I felt a lot of relief. However, I'm still very much shamed for my "lack of masculinity" amongst most of the more conservative and more manly folks I know. Makes me feel like I'm part of some out-group that doesn't exist and has no support because women and men don't want anything to do with me.