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I really like how the “empirical” evidence for god’s existence is just “math has rules and there are patterns in nature, therefore god exists” (hexbear.net)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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And you know what, that might just very well be true if we’re talking about some supernatural force that is indifferent to its creations, not out of malice, but because it simply is truly neutral.

But as evidence for the religious capital ‘G’ God, the one who communicates and plans every little detail because he loves us so much? What is the point of these “subtle” proofs that took thousands of years to be studied and recorded when he has shown that he can just pop up anywhere or perform miracles and whatever the fuck.

It is no coincidence that the vast majority, possibly 99%, of devout religious people do not give a shit about using math to explain god because it’s all proven in their holy books. It is no coincidence that the “empirical” evidence is, in reality, just pointing at the existence of features and concepts of math and science rather than utilizing said features and concepts to prove the existence of god. And no, philosophical musings about morality using the language of mathematical proofs does not count as utilizing math and science (literally, all the axioms in these types of "proofs" are subjective shit like "bad" and "good" and not, say, the difference between 1 and 0).

And I didn’t even want to make a post dunking on religion, but I’m irritated because YouTube recommended some dumbass video by a channel called “Reformed Zoomer” and one of the arguments is “there is an infinite range of numbers between two numbers, and if we turn those numbers into letters, then every book possible has already been written. Checkmate atheoids”. https://youtu.be/z0hxb5UVaNE?si=RpjF6S0fHiF71iH-

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Most of the "proofs", even taken at face value, don't get them anywhere they want to go. No matter if it's Pascal's Wager, or Kalam Cosmological Argument, or something that tortures the Second Law of Thermodynamics. They get you to some kind of god, but the Abrahamic God is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and caring. It's very difficult to get all three while being consistent with the world we see around us.

[–] Flyswat 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

but the Abrahamic God is supposed to be all knowing, all powerful, and caring. It's very difficult to get all three while being consistent with the world we see around us

Add the characteristics of all wise and all just, the fact that the world around us is a test and it makes more sense. If you only consider the scope of this life without the retribution in the afterlife then yeah it doesn't make much sense and seems unjust.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What is just about getting a random number between 0 and 100 years to take a secret test that has been intentionally hidden from you and then being tortured for all eternity if you fail?

[–] Flyswat 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You are assuming that not getting the memo gets you to eternaal punishment, which is false. Only those who failed the test after getting the message are punished accordingly. Those that the message did not reach (say in the Amazonian jungle) will get their own test on the Day of judgement and will get retributed according to how they fared.