this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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I'd love to see someone bring a shopping cart amount of groceries on a bus or train
You don't. If you live where cars are not needed, e.g. Tokyo, you'll just walk to your nearest small grocer and get the ingredients you need. That's what I did when I stayed in Japan for work.
How do disabled people who can't walk far get their groceries then? π€
Delivery services, probably
Or, if we're changing cities already we could make more accessible homes and public transit. If someone in a wheelchair can't get onto a train you've made the train wrong.
I traveled up and down the East Coast with my dad when he was in a wheelchair. Every city was a little different but Amtrak has made their trains this way. A special ramp is needed, which has to be fetched by someone. Baltimore was the worst about it, but they did get us on just fine, and kicked a guy out of the handicapped starting. New York City was incredible. Dude hung out with us until our train showed up and made sure we got on and situated before regular boarding started. Though I think he had dealt with something similar personal and took it upon himself. DC was at about the level you'd expect and was pretty pleasant.
Great to hear, that is actually a lot better than I would have expected. It would still be ideal if you could use it as easily as someone not using a wheelchair but we do have to live in the real world and accommodating everyone is complicated and expensive.
Man. There's a Korean drama on Netflix... I think it was All of Us Are Dead. The apartment building had a bodega-like grocery either on the first floor or connected to it. If we're going to redesign, can it be like that, maybe?
Absolutely it could be like that, mixed use buildings are something we really lack in North America and are the lifeblood of a city
And that really worries me. The government should offer free options for people like that. Uber Eats and Instacart exploits the hell out of people like that.
And that's something we can look into, but it's no reason to stop walkable towns.
No one said it was.
See, I knew one of you motherfuckers was going to come in here and make it obvious you just don't care about the actual facts, you've already made up your minds and seek to make up everyone else's minds for them.
Maybe instead of treating every single discussion of anything like an epic shitfight, you all should just pool your money together, buy your own land, incorporate it as a separate county, and build your own walkable cities and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
holy shit dude why are you so mad?
Because you all are doing nothing but demonstrating for us once again the negativity and childish banality of the human condition, and I'm tired of it.
The immaturity, the short-sightedness, the complete lack of empathy or consideration for anyone who disagrees with you -- you all are attacking people, not just me, who are calling out walkable cities for being unviable for disabled people. One stupid motherfucker here even suggested people like that use delivery services to get their groceries instead of being able to drive, knowing Instacart and Uber Eats exploits the disabled and isn't available everywhere. No consideration that it's unfair for disabled people who can't walk far regardless. No consideration that what you want isn't completely viable because different people with different needs exist, nothing.
Y'all are just angry other people are opposing you because you think us chucklefucks online disagreeing with you is a barrier to what you want and I'm tired of putting up with it.
So until you change, I'm going to be angry at you, and if you don't like me being angry at you for your own behavior, that's a you problem. I don't need you to listen to me or even like me, but you apparently need my approval for your stupid policies and ill-thought-out ideas, and therefore you need me a whole lot more than I need you. The only one hurt by my anger is you. You're the one complaining about it.
You're fucking political parasites and I'm tired of it.
Now let's watch your dumb ass prove my point and do nothing but address my anger and my emotions while not addressing the needs of the disabled people who would be thrown under the bus with car bans at all. π
Busses here have better accessibility than cars.
There are people who need more aid than the busses are equipped for and the bus line runs specially equipped shuttles out to them on request at no cost (back when the busses had fares it cost the same as a bus ride).
It's not that way in most other cities on the planet and you and I both know this.
And it doesn't address one of the many serious problems with car bans -- denying the disabled the right to travel on their own terms and not the bus services.
What happens when they cut routes or service?
Or refuse service for political reasons like during the lockdowns?
Or otherwise dictate when and where you get rides, or who can go with you, or how you travel, or how much stuff you can bring with you?
Or if the service becomes overwhelmed and they simply can't provide rides to everybody?
It's terrible and fucked up to expect the disabled to put up with it just so the c/FuckCars chucklefucks can get rid of what they deem as eyesores.
i don't know how it is in most cities on the planet because i don't live in them and haven't looked into their public transit.
part of having a common good is defending and upholding it. usually when there's a problem with the routes people show up and yell loud enough that something gets done. I don't think they've cut a route and not replaced it with one that has more stops or split it into two that provide more coverage in like 20 years.
during covid here there were fewer busses running, but it was because of reduced ridership and they ran more on demand shuttles to make up the difference. they started installing big crazy air filters on the top of the busses too, so now you can't even smell a fart on one.
when there's more people than the route can handle you gotta wait, same as when there's more traffic than the road can handle. here when that unexpectedly happens they redirect people to other routes when possible.
a lot of what youre talking about is disabled people getting equal access to what car drivers have, which is good when the disabled person lives in a place that expects everyone to have a car. if a place were to ban cars, expect people to use public transport and operate public transport with enough volume and coverage to replace them, it would be better for the disabled than expecting each individual disabled person to own a car with expensive modifications to accommodate them and become licensed to operate it or hire a driver or service in the case they cannot become licensed.
serving the disabled and elderly is what's driven the expansion of bus routes and accessibility here. we don't even have car bans and it's a benefit for so many people!
Chucklefuck is such a great word.
Pot meet kettle lol. People are making actual arguments about how a walkable city is better for every class of person, not just one specific class, and you're throwing them all out, without entertaining the thoughts at all, and with a fair bit of vitriol.
Any situation where the average person doesn't need any special equipment (a car) to get their things done is going to be better for everyone. As a off the top of the head example, when no one else NEEDS to drive, for instance, the people who do need to can more readily. Or they can utilize other, cheaper, specialized equipment, like powered wheelchairs more easily, because everything is within walking distance and the streets aren't packed with people in cars.
That's not what's happening but thanks for showing the class you haven't been paying attention at all.
You know, if all you invested a fifth of a third of a quarter of the energy you're investing trying to get something over on me onto building these walkable cities you supposedly care about, we'd all be on Saturn by now.
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You accuse others of childish banality yet the only condescending jackass in this discussion is you as you lob insults and talk down to people.
News flash, walkable cities and public transit are better for disabled people than cars. Have a person in a wheel chair try to drive a car. Lets a blind person peel out on a motorcycle why donβt you you dipshit? Know how easy it is for a paraplegic to use a subway? They take a ramp or elevator down then roll on and off the cars as they please. Know how a blind person can get around without needing a friend with a car? They can make their way to a bus station where they can be taken across town.
Oh and finally, a βcar banβ? Who mentioned flatly banning cars you disingenuous idiot? We want to design infrastructure for more than just cars, not ban them.
One way to come across as childishly banal and negative is to rant at someone for how bad of a person they are because of your own idiotic assumptions about their position.
Youβre an insanely unserious person so log off and look into what people are actually advocating for instead of swallowing gallons of bullshit from people that know better. Itβs unbecoming of someone with your smug sense of superiority.
And here's stupid motherfucker number 1 coming down the hall and up to the stage to prove my point.
This isn't a conversation about your feelings or mine, this is a discussion about the viability of walkable cities for the disabled. And they're not viable for people like that and never truly can be, not without cars. So unless you assume every resident is riding around in a wheelchair and plan accordingly, which you can't do because most major cities were built way before the ADA and similar laws in other countries were passed -- even before the wheelchair and walkers were invented.
What you want requires trillions of dollars in investment you are never going to get. Not unless you do what I told you to. I gave you stupid assholes a solution, but you're still not listening. Why?
Because for you, this is all about your feelings and not about building a better world at all.
You're up in here writing walls of text to personally attack me, like you always do, because all you care about are your stupid fucking emotions. And I emphasize your emotions.
You clearly don't give a fuck about the old people who will be trapped in their houses, isolated and alone, because they can't make use of anything other than a car.
You don't care about the motherfuckers in wheelchairs who you will be effectively imprisoning either.
You sure as fuck don't care about me other than "How can we exploit this asshole's anger to make them look bad and win the argument?" because all this is about for you is winning an epic battle against me that is only happening in your own head, because I hurt your feelings by telling you facts you didn't want to hear, and now you're getting revenge.
I called you stupid assholes and you, personally, a stupid motherfucker and you will not display one bit of temerity or maturity at all by ignoring it; in fact, that's all you're going to talk about because all you care about is how you feel. Not the actual topic of debate.
And that's why I don't like you, and I will continue to be an asshole to you until you change, and not before. Like I said, you need me a whole hell of a lot more than I need shallow, stupid, petty, selfish, emotional and violent scumbags like you.
Sorry but reality doesn't stroke with your concerns. Old people are stuck in car centric cities when they can no longer drive. Disabled people are stuck in car centric cities when they cannot drive. Cities that prioritize other modes of transport have more options available to both groups and you're mad over nothing.
Edit: just look at Dutch walkable cities as an example - they're perfectly accessible for old people and disabled people. Sorry but the idea disabled people can only use cars and need car-centric infrastructure to live in a city is delusional.
And one of the most tired scapegoats used by people opposing it, we all know they don't give a flying fuck about accessibility when it comes to any other city planning or infrastructure project.