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Did you all notice that week or so of utter shock from federated Lemmy liberals when they saw takes to the left of themselves?
(hexbear.net)
I don't just mean outrage or regular rage, I mean shock that someone was to the left of "legal weed and free college but only for those that operate a successful business for 3 years in a disadvantaged community" 
takes.
I think federating took them by surprise, looking back. For about a week, those smug liberals were at a loss to even fathom what Hexbears were saying, and could only chant bullshit about how we're Russian/Chinese bots.
Sure they still do that but they've slightly adapted to Hexbear presence.
Honestly the same as Red. I used to be one who was playing around with the viability of democratic socialism, but as I read of the historic examples, every single one died. Killed by the US. Allende in Chile, the italian marxists post ww2, Nasser in egypt, Patrice Lumumba in the Congo the United Arab Republic, Arbenz was barely even left but they initiated a terror campaign so intense its as if he was Castro. There are countless socialist and socialist adjacent leaders like them with human dignity and love of their people, who tried to do it "the right way" and were all slaughtered.
Anyone who did not immediately take up arms to entrench themselves, who did not make their nation a fortress, were immediately ripped to shreds. You have morals and a want to do right by people, as do we, but the US and its allies have no such disposition.
They fund nazi shock troops, trained the people who became Al Qaeda and the Taliban, Installed dozens of fascist dictatorships all over the world, and have caused their own holocaust in political killings through them. Thats just the start! They killed our own movements! The Black Panthers! They created COINTELPRO to hunt down every single leader of the civil rights movement. One they got may seem familiar: Malcolm X. They will fund the shit out of every single one of your competitors, be it fascist or liberal, they will bribe your army, they will assassinate your friends, drive you insane, and they will do so with a smile. In their eyes, just stepping on the toes of american imperialism to defend your people is enough for them to lash out.
Even the ones armed barely get away. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia (US aided Pol Pot, and the socialist Vietnamese took him out), Korea, China, Basically the entirety of Africa and South America, The Soviets, the Greeks, Cuba, and several more were all scarred forever by the actions of the US. The Soviets specifically were invaded during the revolution by various foreign powers (US, UK, France, etc), Sanctioned to hell so that trade was almost impossible, fighting through one of the most intense civil wars at the time, subjected to one of the largest sabotage campaigns in history (yet), had to industrialize their country to western levels in 10 years where it took capitalists 100 during said sabotage and after said civil war, subjected to the largest land invasion in history by the most evil empire in history (lots of history being made), lost 30 million people in that war, lost major parts of their industrial and infrastructure capacity, had to rebuild and reorganize themselves and eastern Europe from scratch, then subjected to military and political encirclement by the richest countries on earth, and all of this within 30 years. There are people who had to fight, suffer, and survive through each of those while they were teens to adults. They survived. It took 70 years of the most intense military, political, and subversive pressure known to man before people like them could be broken. They did it to tell us that it is possible. Even through the most hellish of conditions, it is possible. Just keep fighting. This isn't even mentioning the insane struggles of the Chinese communists in the civil war, sino japanese war, and then Korean war. The Struggle of the Vietnamese fighting off the US, Japan, and France in a thirty year span.
We do not choose violence because it is our favorite option, it is because it is our only option. I wish we could just get the bright world we both see in the future through little bloodshed, but its not possible.
Sorry for the long response, but this is very important to me. I have some books to recommend if you want.
This is very comprehensive, thanks for the explaination! What I was trying to ask though was what's hexbear's thoughts on Democratic socialism as a concept. I ask because everyone here seems to be very specifically communist which is fair but I don't think I'm quite there yet is all. I'm assuming this is because there are successful real world examples of communism such as The People's Republic of China vs the only ever failed attempts at a socialist country?
in a way, but the main point is that the bourgeoisie has its tools within bourgeois democracy and it's gonna use them to jeopardize every socialist effort
the chilean experience is the best one to show this imo, you can watch guzmán's "battle of chile" to see a good explanation (it's pretty widely available on the internet), but to sum it all up: first they blocked allende through all the institutional tools, such as congress and the judiciary (which tends to be very elitist by nature); once popular movements started pressuring with strikes and demonstrations, they used economic power, especially aided by america - they would shut down factories, transportation companies, call for sanctions, etc, all in an attempt to cause a supply crisis and demoralize the government and all social organizations; but popular movements again reacted, mostly by literally forcing up the factories and warehouses and keeping them working, since they knew bosses are basically useless for a company to actually be functional; after that happened, the bourgeoisie went for their last resort, the military, and finally the workers were crushed since there was no armed resistance as an answer
this was not a singular experience, but the norm throughout the 20th century: people would go forward, class relations would get really intense, then the military or paramilitary forces would kill everyone. the point is that capital can and always will use force, and once they do, you either react accordingly or you get crushed and killed. bear in mind, this is actually "understandable" - how would you feel if you were in their place? if your entire lifestyle was threatened by those under you? would you simply give up on all you have (and they have a lot of shit to lose)? fuck no, they are gonna have your ass arrested or killed, there's a limit to what people can lose without resorting to violence, and the whole point of socialism is that the bourgeoisie should eventually lose everything. we're talking about the entire disappearance of a class here - not the people belonging to it, mind you, they would just become common workers like all of us - but for a capitalist, becoming a simple worker is just hell
So you're saying Democratic socialism is flawed because it still allows elections, which are by nature corruptable?
no, cuba has elections, and is actually more inclusive than america in that sense
the point is you can't vote the bourgeoisie out of power because they simply won't let you. they will use their massive economic power to shut you down, in whatever ways said economic power can be used, including, as a last resort, to fund a violent reaction (through the army, paramilitary forces, or otherwise)
edit: oh, nvm, you mean democratic socialism not as a way to achieve socialism, but to run it? if that's the case then no socialist i've met has any issue with democracy at all, in fact most of us (at least among marxists) consider every socialist country to be more democratic than any capitalist one. we have a problem with liberal democracy, which we think is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie in disguise
Yes, this! Sorry, I wasn't being clear enough. Good to know though. I'm still researching socialism so there's a lot I don't quite understand - I grew up religious conservative and have only been leftwing for the last few years. Definitely leaning hard into socialism the more I learn though. US voting is goddamn bullshit though with our archaic electoral college, gerrymandering, and the legal bribing we call "lobbying".
No, socialist states hold elections. The problem isn't democracy, it's the bourgeois control of "democratic" mechanisms in liberal society, which isn't "corruption" so much as the explicit intention of the design (why is there a Senate?).
Democratic Socialism is flawed because it attempts to enact change under an economic dictatorship, the Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie. They hold all the factories, all the gun makers, all the money flow, all the software and telecommunications and electricity and water.
And so in order to enact Socialism you need to take those things away from the Bourgeoisie. This is what Communists really mean about establishing the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. It's not just political control by the workers, it's economic control. And unfortunately you can't vote your way to that if those who have economic control don't want you to.