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I totally get the joke, and Pedro can only be a good thing (huge fan, pray daily that he adopts me). But I do understand why some men would find it insulting. What's your thoughts?
this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2025
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Sorry to dive into the mix here, but I've got a kind of genuine question, as someone who is having to play catch up on my femme socialization. I thought the "it's not all men" response is sort of the classic incel defense? Like actually the safest approach for women is to assume "all men". The comparison I've had success explaining to men is "how do you treat a gun you don't know anything about?" To which they quickly respond with, "like it's loaded", and I can follow up with "right, because it could easily hurt or kill you." By this point most men are starting to see the connection. So it’s easy to complete the thought with, "most men could easily hurt or kill most women, so treating them all like a loaded gun is legitimately the safest option".
This kind of came up in a comm I mod. A meme came up with the punchline basically being, "women don't want to date fascists and want guys who punch nazis" and it got reported for "alienating men from leftist causes." Like actually if humor like that makes you feel like an outgroup, I don't think the joke was meant for you, and you might want to think about why the crowd you want to be "in" with finds the joke funny or relevant.
EDIT: To be clear, I very much see your point with your son. I would want to find a way to prevent the pigeon holing too. There are definitely ways to have these conversations without making men feel like shit, but providing them examples of healthy role models, even if the example comes from a meme, is not a bad thing. I know my pre-transition self would have wondered, "what does Pedro Pascal do or say to make people think this" which would send me down a rabbit hole of his support for his sister and trans folk in general. His just completely level headed take after level headed take on hot issues as if they have easy and obvious answers. He genuinely spreads love at every turn, which is so far from the default behavior of most men women interact with.
It's weird... I like you comparison to guns but also I hate it. It really does make a point but I think it just enforces the bad generalization point?
NOTE: I'm autistic and miss the point sometimes (a lot) I'm more asking questions here than trying to claim I'm correct. I'm very open to the conversation.
There are lots of problems with it I think. Guns are tools. Tools used to kill and nothing else. Guns aren't capable of thought and reasoning and so on. Guns should be treated as loaded as a respect think, not a fear thing. Guns kill when people use them to kill.
Men are not that. Men can be so many things. Also I'd assume more men have never even come close to hurting or killing women then those that have hurt or killed women. Women have also killed men. Some women don't fear men.
Why treat things as an absolute when it's a complicated spectrum like any other. Generalizations are just bad I think... They just kind of lead to tribalism in a bad way.
My brother pointed out something that happened to him. A woman crossed the street to not walk on the sidewalk where he was waiting for a bus. General advice we give out to each other, right? But then he asked how different would that be if he crossed to street if a black person was waiting for the bus? I'll be honest I didn't have an answer for him. Like if he did that people would call him racist for making a generalization, and I don't think he's wrong...
What's different?
Yeah I see what you’re saying. Agree even! (Also autistic so tone, and missing points and stuff like that, I also struggle) I am also here primarily to learn, not preach.
The only thing I’m pondering is your point about guns being a tool, not doing the killing themselves. I think that’s interesting. Like it’s an application of the saying “guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” So the metaphor breaks down when the “treat every gun like it’s loaded” is applied to men. The only twist I’ll maybe add is that men are the gun and patriarchal capitalism is the person wielding it? Like men have been so conditioned by the ruling class, but I’m not going to really dig into my personal politics here, just seeing if that helps blend the two approaches.
Like I do not think every individual man is responsible for the lack of safety women understandably feel around men. I think “the system” is responsible for that, but it’s going to take active work on the part of men to undo that, otherwise it just functions as them playing along with it.
The crossing the street thing is interesting. This gets brought up in trans masc circles semi regularly. Trans men talking about hitting a point in passing where women cross the street to avoid them, and the discussion often comes down to, “I’m sad about it, but I get it, men suck.” I think the amount of societal healing that needs to happen for things like that to shift is immense. Basically I’m not sure exactly what is different, if anything.
I don’t think I really took a particular stance in this post, just kind of dropped info I have that’s loosely related to what we were chatting about…
Idk if I’m still making sense. Words are hard.
Yeah. You're making a lot of sense.
At the end of the day I don't have the answers or solutions sadly just more questions and doubts.
I fully understand why we use the language we do and the mass generalization and I hate it. Subtilty doesn't get points across most of the time and hyperbolic arguments do and that also sucks.
You make such a great point with society meeting SO SO MUCH healing. I guess I just have this wish we would all just be better to each other and take people as they come. But then I see how you do that and surprise that one IS a bad person...
Just feel like we're racing to the bottom. :(
Oof yeah. The race to the bottom is real :(