this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
23 points (100.0% liked)

Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

6877 readers
290 users here now

Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

Ethanol is the biggest environmental disaster in the United States. It takes two gallons of fossil fuels (counting fertilizer, transportation, and all other inputs) to make one gallon of ethanol - plus all the herbicides, pesticides, toxic fertilizer runoff, and all the other negative externalities of monocrop industrial agriculture - so a handful of Big Ag megacorps can get fat off subsidies at taxpayer expense.

51 million acres of farmland - an area the size of Nebraska - wasted turning fuel into less efficient fuel.

Of fucking course Trump and Biden found some way to make it worse.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I definitely agree the corn subsidies are wasteful and over-funded. Also I'm sure your well meaning, but the myth that it takes 2 gallons to produce 1 gallon of ethanol seems like misleading oil propaganda. What is your source on that claim?

It takes two gallons of fossil fuels (counting fertilizer, transportation, and all other inputs) to make one gallon of ethanol

Even corn ethanol (one of the worst ways to make ethanol) still produces 30% more energy than the energy used to produce it. And with better production practices, it could be a lot better (and might be right now since the numbers are somewhat old) than that. That means less pollution.

Country Type Energy balance

United States Corn ethanol 1.3

Germany Biodiesel 2.5

Brazil Sugarcane ethanol 8

United States Cellulosic ethanol† 2–36

Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Environment

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I will admit my two-for-one claim is at the very lowest end of estimates - possibly slightly lower than the lowest end estimate - for corn ethanol efficiency. Though it's a snappy line and easier to remember than "1.6 gallons per gallon" or whatever.

But as the Wikipedia notes at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance :

Depending on the ethanol study you read, net energy returns vary from .7-1.5 units of ethanol per unit of fossil fuel energy consumed.

Bluntly, there's a lot of bad science around ethanol, for the obvious reason that both Big Ag and the US government are highly motivated to make corn subsidies look good and keep the money flowing.

But oil propaganda? Fucking lol. We need to phase out fossil fuels entirely. If anything, US ethanol production benefits oil companies - because ethanol is an additive to gasoline, Big Ag and Big Oil both benefit from keeping internal combustion engines on the road and slowing the transition to EVs.

So on the negative end: this 2005 study estimated corn ethanol consumed 29% more energy than it produced:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070809024158/http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/Biofuels/NRRethanol.2005.pdf

And though that study is old, and the Wikipedia page on ethanol energy balance goes out of its way to claim it's been discredited (gosh, I wonder who added that content), here's an article about a 2022 study finding similarly that corn based ethanol produces at least 24% more greenhouse gases than gasoline when all the impacts - including the expansion of farmland into previously undeveloped land, funded by ethanol subsidies - are taken into account:

https://grist.org/agriculture/despite-what-you-may-think-ethanol-isnt-dead-yet/

And then there's all the other negative externalities of expanding fucking cornfields.

load more comments (4 replies)